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Street Fighter 6 Lounge: The FGC has a crack problem.

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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Shakunetsu Level 17

Shakunetsu

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1 hour ago, Shakunetsu said:

Interesting

 

So here's my own thoughts regarding JP

 

Him being a dimensional travel? 

 

  • He might be able to bring back alternate version of DEAD CHARACTERS or from a different TIMELINE? Like Bison, Goutetsu and etc.
  • He might be also responsible for the sudden presence UNWORLDLY BEINGS like Necali in SFV.
  • Regarding also with dimension travel he could also bring alternate version of DARKSTALKERS Characters & other characters from various Capcom IP like CYBERBOTS, but in a different alternate version. 
  • He might be able to used as a tool for GUEST CHARACTERS from other companies like SNK's KOF Terry.
  • JP seems the narrative tool equivalent to KOF's VERSE that is used to bring back dead like Team Orochi & SAMSHO back in present time. 
  • JP power's and abilities might have similarities with JJBA FUNNY VALENTINE teleporting characters from different dimension, timeline & parallels 

 

 

 

 

ROSE might be very integral to JP's story and abilities because of ALTERNATE TIMELINES and loops.

 

19-story.webp

 

Edited just now by Shakunetsu

 

 And JP's Torbalan/Торбалан might be the thing/abilities related about taking characters from different dimension, timelines & parallels to his present locations.

That might be one of the gateway to various possibilities of bringing back BISON and others in their prime versions

 

11 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

Since Bison also has a Astral form (AKA Phantom Bison) he can exist in a different realm even without a physical body
 

f_vega00.jpg?h=c6de66a1311ce92c6e3553dae

 

I could see this a possibility when JP took a Bison from another dimension and Phantom Bison arrives,

 

Which basically explains the multiple Bison clones in SFEX SHIN BISON, BISON II and BISON

 

XfeM1V6.gif
 

 

Edited by Shakunetsu
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Shakunetsu Level 17

Shakunetsu

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6 hours ago, Shakunetsu said:

As for JP's Gameplay I am now thinking of him besides from teleport

 

and also controlling space, distance and doing specials that uses absorbs and vacuums

 

JP might had some specials similar to KI Gargos

 

Like Summoning Minions as backup and teleporting punches

 

 

 

And also KOF's Magaki that manipulates projectile arc and trajectory using teleportation

 

 

  

33 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

JP might be the more tamed versions of Verse(KOF) and also KRONICA (MK).
 

 

BrSHHeE.png

 

34 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

That I'm already expecting SF6 will have tons of guest characters because it's a new popular gimmick. And I was not happy with that.

 

35 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

Capcom knows that it's everywhere so I expect them the same but in a more "controlled way" to fit the current STREET FIGHTER, So it would be "alternate version" instead of the exact one.

 

Here's the positive of the areas that we can at least look into.

 

To be honest I think the move of bringing "alternate version" instead of exact version is are clever move of Capcom. Because it's a more MANAGEABLE WAY. 

 

  • Compare to Namco that just randomly putting Akuma or KOF's Verse acting as whole portal that everything comes in PACKAGE or SETS, Verse is not reusable and just a single usage in narrative
  • Because people would need to manage expectation to certain characters from different parallels, dimensions and timeline to be not the exact character, Regarding they are Terry, Geese, Kazuya or whoever.
  • Same case if Morrigan is now finally became a DLC or whatever DarkStalker Character, So power level expectation would be more grounded if they decide to crossover a version of them.
  • The current crossover character will not also bringing the WHAT IF possibilities and all the lore of their ORIGIN IP. So that it won't complicate the current established canon because they literally came from a different version.
  • So there won't be fan having fanfiction on comparing the present status and timeline of the other IP like KOF to SF because of having a single character doing a crossover. because it's not just a different timeline but a whole new different parallel.

 

This had been something also building in the background a while from ALTERNATE VERSION of characters in CFN Profiles like Ruby Heart, Kyle and some Rival School Characters. Even in various games outside SF IP

 

tVctJK2.png

 

Edited by Shakunetsu
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Shahenzan Level 10

Shahenzan

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Beta was good, very impressed at how functional everything was. Easily the smoothest FG beta I think, ever. Training mode extremely good, just missing hitboxes/hurtboxes...netcode was rock solid...only real concern on technical matters are the reports that input delay is a nasty 6f.

 

As far as the game itself, I liked a lot of the changes. The way plus frames are kind of scarce to make you want to drive rush, the fact that counter hits and punish counters enable different combos, the drive system overall feels well thought out in terms of its economy. Buttons having reach again after V feels great. Only concerns are drive parry and drive impact. Drive parry already has option selects where you parry in a string if they mash and drive rush if they dont to keep pressure, though how strong that is or how often its usable I'm not sure. The parry didn't shine much this beta, but it'll get stronger the more people research it I just hope it doesnt get too strong.

Drive impact was the big obnoxious mechanic after all. After a couple of days I felt like I could react to it if I was keeping an eye out for it, and the best response to it is definitely DIing back. DI absorbs on frame 1 giving you the most time to react, reacting with throw is good too but harder, jumping is easiest but not always rewarding depending on whether you jumped in time to actually punish. Because DIing back  is the best response to it, I see why it is only 1 bar, because they didnt want the best DI response to be expensive. Because you can cancel into DI from special cancelable normals, I was also getting used to reacting with DI if my poke got absorbed and I thought that was a stable answer buuuuuuuuuut if your poke isnt special cancelable or if it has a really small special cancelable window, it doesnt really work out...Not sure what if anything they need to do to this. Maybe make it worse on block?

 

anyway cool game, looking forward to next time i get to play it

 

Edited by Shahenzan
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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

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1 hour ago, Vhozite said:

Any good YT vids I can watch since I didn’t get to play the beta? Don’t really care which characters are played just want to see gameplay in general.

@EvilCanadian (Rooflemonger)

Flawless Deku

Vesper Arcade

 

All of them have YouTube videos you can check out. Evil Canadian and Vesper will go over all the characters. I haven't seen all of Flawless Deku's stuff, he has a lot of Kimberly and Juri footage from what I've seen. I'm sure there are other's but those are three channels I've watched most for SF6 content.

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Hawkingbird Level 18

Hawkingbird

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1 hour ago, Shahenzan said:

Drive impact was the big obnoxious mechanic after all. After a couple of days I felt like I could react to it if I was keeping an eye out for it, and the best response to it is definitely DIing back. DI absorbs on frame 1 giving you the most time to react, reacting with throw is good too but harder, jumping is easiest but not always rewarding depending on whether you jumped in time to actually punish. Because DIing back  is the best response to it, I see why it is only 1 bar, because they didnt want the best DI response to be expensive. Because you can cancel into DI from special cancelable normals, I was also getting used to reacting with DI if my poke got absorbed and I thought that was a stable answer buuuuuuuuuut if your poke isnt special cancelable or if it has a really small special cancelable window, it doesnt really work out...Not sure what if anything they need to do to this. Maybe make it worse on block?

During the final hours of the beta I had to be on the lookout for DI. I fought a Kimberly who's entire strategy was landing one. I think Capcom needs to adjust the risk/reward of DI to make it less dumb.

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

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Risk Reward seems to be something that FG developers struggle with still. For w/e reason, people never want things in the right spot, they always want them stupid. It maybe that Capcom started with stupid and then they'll adjust accordingly.

 

We'll see though. FGC is notorious for bad hot takes and "Feels good" usually means: I don't want my opponent to be able to realistically deal with my tools in an interactive way.

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

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8 minutes ago, Sonero said:

We'll see though. FGC is notorious for bad hot takes and "Feels good" usually means: I don't want my opponent to be able to realistically deal with my tools in an interactive way.

I been saying for a while that nobody is honest when it comes to discussing FGs you really gotta read between the lines. Like if I hear a character described as “viable” I know they’re gutter trash.

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

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I wish I could of played the game. Just so I'd have point of reference if nothing else. I've heard divergent opinions on things and I wondering what's what. Although, and I held this opinion before watching Beta footage, the Street Fighter 5.5 opinion was just silly to me. The difference in how they handled normals alone made me side eye that point of view. Part of the reason I liked Alex and Kolin so much is my normals actually had reach. Ryu had T-Rex arms.

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

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13 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

I been saying for a while that nobody is honest when it comes to discussing FGs you really gotta read between the lines. Like if I hear a character described as “viable” I know they’re gutter trash.

 

I have a lot more to say but can't right now, but this here needs to be talked about properly. Because some characters are fine and could just use a minor buff here or there. But the problem is that they get compared to a character that either needs nerf or the design is an absolute fuck up. so the issue isn't so much that a character is underpowered; its that its underpowered compared to gibberish.

 

SF5 had a lot of characters that were great. Problem was they weren't doing stupid Urien shit. Were they really the problem? No, its that Urien was designed wrong so he gets do stupid shit. Its even worse because you FG players don't want to hear no. Your character shouldn't be doing all this shit at the same time. Because when characters do that they end up being dumb. 

 

It gets silly. We'll see how SF6 shakes out. Feels like they have a better handle on what they're doing with their game than ArcSys does with any of them at the moment.

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Pair of Rooks Level 14

Pair of Rooks

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21 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

I been saying for a while that nobody is honest when it comes to discussing FGs you really gotta read between the lines. Like if I hear a character described as “viable” I know they’re gutter trash.

It's funny because it's true. 🤣 No one will tell you how great their character is except a bottom tier hero. 

 

___________

 

I noticed sajam was having notable difficulty with performing wakeup DPs or ending combos with supers.  Heca said he felt the game ate inputs.  Anyone else have or see that? 

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Shahenzan Level 10

Shahenzan

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55 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

During the final hours of the beta I had to be on the lookout for DI. I fought a Kimberly who's entire strategy was landing one. I think Capcom needs to adjust the risk/reward of DI to make it less dumb.

I don't think the risk/reward on DI is dumb. If you throw out DI, that shit comes out in 26f with a good bit of recovery. On block, you're basically back to neutral (unless its in the corner in which case collect combo lol). On normal hit, you didnt get much of a return. On counter hit you get a big ol crumple combo. Those are your good outcomes for it. 

 

Now your bad outcomes are...they grab you (varying degrees of bad depending on where you on screen), they jump (depending on their timing you either barely got out free or they are coming down with a full punish on your ass), or they DI back (where they collect the same reward you were looking for by pressing it in the first place). Like I was saying if they make DI cost more meter then it gets prohibitive to respond against it with your own DI which imo isnt good, because thats the highest return counter to it. If they make DI slower it doesn't really serve its purpose as a mixup that you want to avoid in the corner/in burnout, because if its any slower than it is now it will  be very much in effortlessly reactable territory. That's why IMO if anything it should be worse on block or not have pushback midscreen, so if you do gamble and swing with it and they just block they can at least take their turn. Right now I'm in the camp that DI existing is a net positive because it draws your attention away from other mixups, making everything else stronger by virtue of adding to the mental stack. 

 

13 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

It's funny because it's true. 🤣 No one will tell you how great their character is except a bottom tier hero. 

 

___________

 

I noticed sajam was having notable difficulty with performing wakeup DPs or ending combos with supers.  Heca said he felt the game ate inputs.  Anyone else have or see that? 

I had trouble with wakeup DP and ending combos with supers too. Specifically, I noticed that if I did a special with say a 236 motion into a 236236 level 3, it was harder to get it to come out by inputting it as 236x236x, which used to be really consistent. I had to start doing 236x236236x to get it to come out more consistent. Something about cancels and reversal timing is definitely different in this game, but I think I like it? Kind of nice for these things to feel more precise again...

Edited by Shahenzan
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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

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8 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

SF5 had a lot of characters that were great. Problem was they weren't doing stupid Urien shit. Were they really the problem? No, its that Urien was designed wrong so he gets do stupid shit.

The issue is in the real world in SF5 stupid Urien shit is one of the main pillars that makes characters (too) good in that environment. It’s fine to think Urien is stupid but it’s intellectually dishonest to not consider him and characters like him if that’s what dominates the meta, especially if there is no reason to believe things will change. It’s like saying I’m rich if you don’t consider Bezos, Musk, and Gates.

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TWINBLADES Level 15

TWINBLADES

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SF6 is not SFV. 2 it's not even close. SFV (a game I really like) is so bare bones compared to 6 that it's actually insane to think about. SFV doesn't have a universal mechanic so it lacks any flavor or identity. When people were saying this earlier this year I just couldn't understand it because I thought it was nothing but haters. But having played the beta from sun up to sun down I actually agree with that statement 100%. Burn out is gonna be a fucking disgusting place to be in once people optimize their drive meter set play. It's gonna be so important at the top level. I think about how DNF D has the conversion mechanic and seeing how cracked out top level players are with it and thinking about how the drive system is that but has 50x the utility. People are bitching about DI being 1 bar but that 1 bar is gonna mean the fucking world to you when your ass is in a checkmate situation in the corner. I'm already exhausted thinking about all the shit I'm gonna have to worry about because mental stack is gonna be a fucking nightmare in this game. God I hope Manon is fucking braindead because I fear having to actually think. 😥

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