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Street Fighter 6 Lounge: The FGC has a crack problem.

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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elliephil Level 15

elliephil

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

 

 

What is funny is that GG has never been that oppressive due how the mechanics worked, it has a very nuance neutral game, but people like to meme it as a rushdown heavy game.

I can certainly appreciate Guilty Gear for it's nuance both in neutral and on knockdown. It had lots of good universal mechanics that gave you options to get in and out of situations. SFV did not. In fact, it felt like it encouraged you to play a different game entirely. V-shift was a nice addition but it was maybe too little too late. A testing grounds for the drive system in SF6 perhaps? 🤔

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elliephil Level 15

elliephil

Posted
Posted

 

 

Drive rush keeps your momentum while you throw out moves. Reminds me of Fighting EX Layer.

 

I didnt realize burnout state means you can't block drive impact (focus attack) in the corner. You also go into a stun state after the drive impact connects.

 

Has there been any information on stun? Is there even a regular stun value not tied to drive system?

 

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Jocelot Level 14

Jocelot

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, BornWinner said:

Thankfully, one of the videos that’s come out has someone going through his movelist. I took some screenshots for you.

 

Yoooooooo this really is a bigass movelist. Thanks bud. This character is gonna be so wild. Overall looks like a very momentum based character.

And his EX divekick ground bounces too, that's crazy. He's definitely gonna be the 'style on you' character 

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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, BornWinner said:

Thankfully, one of the videos that’s come out has someone going through his movelist. I took some screenshots for you.

 

  Hide contents

Special Moves

 

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Super Moves

SlxpYec.jpg

 

Unique Moves

 

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I0a1umO.jpg

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He can drink anytime he wants and hold it till he gets level 4 drunk. He can also get a swig in at the end of certain moves. These moves include kick rekka, two target combos, and his level 1. 
 

 

giphy_27.gif

 

This dude is Drunk Dante wtf? Him popping Lv. 2 Super at round start on the 3rd must be the scariest thing in the game.

 

8 hours ago, HeavensCloud said:

Wow, that Jamie movelist is crazy.  Sounds like he has a lot of good tools but his strength might be determined by how easy it is to get drink levels.  I hope it's easier than Hakan/G and you don't have to give up oki to do it.  

We've seen some footage of it, seems *very* quick for an install character. Roughly a little slower than say, a Juri store, but it's way quicker than the likes of G. You can definitely sneak a sip every once in a while. 

 

Not needing to give up Oki for it is absolutely not happening though.

 

6 hours ago, elliephil said:

I can certainly appreciate Guilty Gear for it's nuance both in neutral and on knockdown. It had lots of good universal mechanics that gave you options to get in and out of situations. SFV did not.

Exactly.

 

ArcSys gets away with a ridiculous amount of things that would be outright bullshit in other games because of how they really focus on robust universal mechanics.

 

SF6 got something similar going on, so it should be a very interesting game.

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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Stun is tied to the Drive System. So the Drive Gauge doubles as a Guard/Stun meter.

Speaking of which, it's interesting that you can pick exactly when you want to go for the Stun now. Not having to worry about Stun forcing a "reset" is already a very nice deal, but there's more. Burnout is hella long and you can run some offense while they're all but defenseless then cash in that Stun with a meaty focus attack.

 

Supers are shown to eat some of the opponent's Drive on hit, I wonder if you can use them to force them into Burnout.

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Hecatom said:

 

 

What is funny is that GG has never been that oppressive due how the mechanics worked, it has a very nuance neutral game, but people like to meme it as a rushdown heavy game.

 

 

This isn't even remotely close to true. 

 

There's literal tournament footage of multiple versions of GG being worse than the shit you could do in SF5.

 

 

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Hecatom Level 18

Hecatom

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

 

This isn't even remotely close to true. 

 

There's literal tournament footage of multiple versions of GG being worse than the shit you could do in SF5.

 

 

 

 

And there is plenty more footage that shows the neutral game of GG and how nuance is.

If we nitpick, we can make any game look rushdown heavy/oppressive as fuck.

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

And there is plenty more footage that shows the neutral game of GG and how nuance is.

If we nitpick, we can make any game look rushdown heavy/oppressive as fuck.

 

 

Yeah the neutral is cool until you get your shit rocked. And when you do you gotta deal with a bunch of bullshit that system mechanics didn't help you much against. There's a legit laundry list of characters that constantly do that.

 

People really meme like you weren't gonna get opened up by the big gorilla energy in the Guilty Gear series. That's hilarious. SF5 has nothing on GG. SF5 is sparkling water compared to GG.

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BornWinner Level 17

BornWinner

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Volt said:

 

Supers are shown to eat some of the opponent's Drive on hit, I wonder if you can use them to force them into Burnout.

You can. One part of Max’s two hour video has him eating Ryu‘s level 3 which drains his drive gauge. If he hadn’t died from it, Max would’ve been on Butnout.

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CESTUS III Level 15

CESTUS III

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Daemos said:


Lol! It's a true 50/50!

Which Vega and Which Bison?!!! Fucking hell!

I want Claw more than Rog/Boxer, but i need pure boxing rep more than Claw

 

Ideal scenario Claw and Dictator + Dudley as boxing rep

 

But reality is Ed being in and developers having boner for urban american hiphop, make me think Rog is gaining advantage over Dudley 🥲

 

 

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CESTUS III Level 15

CESTUS III

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Volt said:

We've seen some footage of it, seems *very* quick for an install character. Roughly a little slower than say, a Juri store, but it's way quicker than the likes of G. You can definitely sneak a sip every once in a while.

Wonder if they may chose to turn him into glass cannon, to let him have all tools and powerups 

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
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Posted
5 hours ago, Dragonfave723 said:

Credit to @Scotiaover at Resetera for summarizing the devs interview provided by IGN Japan: https://jp.ign.com/street-fighter-6/60367/interview/63

 

 

  • Development of Street Fighter 6 began in 2018. Nakayama (who was directing SF5 at the time) created a 92-page proposal booklet for what he envisioned SF6 being that included FIGHTING GROUND, BATTLE HUB AND WORLD TOUR.
  • Nakayama says that while what's in these proposals usually change significantly during the middle of development, the 92-page booklet for SF6 has mostly stayed the same since he created it in 2018 and still continues what he calls the three pillars of the game; the Fighting Ground, Battle Hub and World Tour modes.
  • With the Drive System, they started with the idea of making it easy to experience strong actions and defences using the Drive gauge. Several aspects of the Drive System has been noted to have similarities to systems and gameplay mechanics from Street Fighter IV and Street Fighter III, but according to Nakayama, the aim was not to introduce elements from past titles.
  • Jamie came about due to there having never been a Drunken Fist character in the series prior to SF6. Because he is also young, Nakayama wanted to add current culture to him and thus made Jamie a breakdancer and set him up to be Luke's rival.
  • The drink in Jamie's jug is called Yakuyu which is more like a medicinal tea and not actually alcohol. Matsumoto followed up by calling it 'a special drink' and everyone in the room started laughing.
  • As for the existing Street Fighter characters, they are trying to keep the good parts of each character while making adjustments to the game as a whole. Nakayama uses an example of Ryu's electric blade Neriki V-Trigger from SF5 is now back with a different input.
  • They don't think of World Tour Mode as an extra mode but rather a single game's worth of content. They think the same about Fighting Ground and Battle Hub and say that it feels like they've been making three games instead of one, which has been trouble for the producers.
  • Matsumoto says he did not intend to depict the country of America in particular with World Tour mode and its focus on Metro City; "I don't think street culture has anything to do with countries, so I'm not really conscious of that,"
  • Nakayama slips up and reveals that Metro City is actually just the first stage of World Tour mode. The interviewer notices and digs further in for more comments from Nakayama; "Well, it's the 'WORLD TOUR'. I can't say for sure yet, but I hope you'll look forward to hearing more about it. We're aiming to create an experience where you can travel the world and become stronger."
  • The interviewer harkens back to Ryu's old words in the series; "I'm going to meet someone stronger than me." and feels that World Tour mode will be the embodiment of that.
  • Matsumoto points out that Luke's words at the start of the State of Play trailer; "There's probably no end to the journey to find out what strength is." also describe the adventure of World Tour mode.
  • "There are many hardcore fighters and casual fighters out there, but there are also people who like the world view and characters of Street Fighter. It would be good if you could imagine an approach that could reach out to them as well." - Matsumoto
  • After Matsumoto says this; the interviewer is reminded of his favourite game Shenmue and notes that World Tour mode and Shenmue have something in common due to their origins of stemming from well-known fighting games (Virtua Fighter for Shenmue).
  • While the interviewer was hesitant to compare this new work to something as well known as Shenmue, the first think Nakayama said upon seeing him was for him to try World Tour mode as he knew he liked Shenmue.
  • Upon being asked if they were influenced by Shenmue, Nakayama laughs and says they should have put in a gacha machine.
  • The interviewer confirms there is no gacha machine in World Tour mode.
  • "We're not just making a fighting game, we're making 'Street Fighter' itself." - Nakayama on World Tour mode.
  • Matsumoto says that when they started discussing what the world-view of Street Fighter was, they began discussing hip-hop, urban tastes and graffiti art.
  • "The UI and direction of the game uses subjects that go well with Street Fighter, as the hip-hop and graffiti style was also the taste of Street Fighter 1 and 3rd Strike." - Nakayama
  • The interview feels the above statement by Nakyama shows that World Tour mode (as well as SF6) will be faithful to the history of the series while expanding on from the starting point of 3rd Strike. And like 3rd Strike, SF6 and World Tour will also have someone other than Ryu as the protagonist.
  • While Luke is already confirmed to be the protagonist of 6, it appears that players will be able to create their own avatar to use throughout World Tour mode. Nakayama doesn't outright confirm it, but says "There's a story to be told, and I think that if you follow it, you'll find your own values and ways to enjoy it".
  • Nakayama also wouldn't confirm if main characters from Street Fighter would appear in World Tour mode, but the interviewer feels like they will given Nakayama's earlier comments ("well, we're making Street Fighter").
  • The interviewer then gets excited at the idea of flying to Japan in World Tour mode and fighting Ryu and E. Honda, then flying to China to fight Chun-Li and Fei Long. He also ponders the idea of exploring Suzaku Castle or entering a bath house and finding a sumo ring.
  • The interviewer wonders, however, that with the scale of the game getting bigger and bigger by the minute, with Fighting Ground and Battle Hub each being its own game, are they being too ambitious?
  • Matsumoto disagrees; "While we're making a fighting game, we're also trying to make a new Street Fighter game, so we're saying, 'For that, we need something like this. We kept saying, 'This is the kind of person we want to reach, so this is what we need'.
  • Nakayama adds: "We've been saying it for a long time. Of course there were concerns, but the team worked as one and kept saying, 'This is really the new Street Fighter, and it's absolutely necessary to broaden the base of fighting games and make them playable once more for all kinds of players'. The team's hard work and creativity in keeping that ambition alive made it even better"
  • Nakayama talks about the development team for 6: "The development team members were all motivated and sincere, and they came up with new ideas and suggestions on a daily basis on how to make the game more interesting, so the functions and modes kept getting better and better."
  • He also says that he's never had such a positive development system in his entire development career and that, while it's been tough, everyone is eager to deliver a new Street Fighter experience.
  • Matsumoto says that everyone has worked hard on the game and they want to release new information bit-by-bit.
  • The interviewer already felt that SF6 was an ambitious project from the State of Play trailer, but after this interview they got the sense that there are projects in the pipeline that are far beyond their imagination. They tip their hat to Capcom for allowing such a project to go ahead and giving the developers the freedom to create a new Street Fighter game as fast as they can.
  • Final quote from Matsumoto; "I think we need to do this at this point, not just for 6, but for what's ahead. I don't want to see the Street Fighter brand disappear, so the biggest thing is that I want to challenge myself now to do everything I can for it."

 

I don't know if anyone posted this interview with the devs in this thread. It's in the story thread and I know not everyone here is into lore. It's very informative. Credit to @Scotiaand @Dragonfave723

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-PVL93- Level 13

-PVL93-

Posted
Posted

My isp decided to shit itself so I've been without Internet for the last 5 days, but from what I could see and read or hear I'm actually kinda starting to like 6 a lot in terms of mechanics 

 

The worrisome things for me right now are:

 

- how well matched  the hitboxes and move animations are

- the balance of keeping enough drive gauge to interact with the opponent vs avoiding burnout and thus putting yourself at a disadvantage (unable to EX, hold parry, drive impact) 

- characters getting gutted or having certain moves missing/locked out (eg V just hates rekkas for some reason) 

- gameplay speed (at the moment it feels kinda slow so hopefully Capcom pumps it up come release) 

- how much can drive impact be abused since it crumples and Wall bounces + pushes you back even on block 

- hit sounds right now are just complete shit and need improvements ASAP 

- adjustments to lightning on character models and stages (the back alley and the sakura park are too bland and don't pop as much as they should), plus characters blending on the latter 

- since Luke seems to have character specific taunts, will there be special intros? They're already going out of their way to fully animate the faces for intros

- zoning potency, especially now that we know there is a universal parry mechanic 

- lack of a stun gauge (is there even a stun mechanic at all), which IMO is a step backwards from V and III

- Super meter being used ONLY for supers and nothing else. I still think EX moves should probably be tied away from the Drive gauge, this isn't Guilty Gear where you can have many things tied to Tension bar because of how fast it can be accumulated while the Drive gauge is restoring bit by bit with the only method of accelerating the regen being parrying (as opposed to V skills helping to charge V gauge faster in V) 

- How much freedom is there for combos. We know you can cancel out of a lot of stuff with the Drive Rush but what about the juggle potential? Capcom adjusted this quite a lot in Def Edition patch for V which opened up many new combos and combo routes, coupled with hitbox and hurtbox changes 

 

And of course the loading times and input lag, as well as the rollback quality implementation 

I'm hopeful Capcom learned and improved based on the MVCI iteration of their Kagemusha netcode as opposed to just building upon the garbage that is V netplay 

 

This game launching on previous gen consoles is also worrisome because of confirmed crossplay and this is the first fighting game built with RE Engine as opposed to unreal. Kind of Uncharted waters there for the genre 

 

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Phantom_Miria Level 16

Phantom_Miria

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, PVL_93_RU said:

- lack of a stun gauge (is there even a stun mechanic at all), which IMO is a step backwards from V and III

There is stun and there's also some footage of it.

If I understood the system correctly, to get stunned you need to:

 

1) Run out of drive meter (that you lose gradually by using drive and EX moves, but also just by blocking apparently, and you can replenish it by parrying).

2) Get hit or block a focus attack (or rather, the drive move that's similar to focus attack) in the corner, that you won't be able to easily avoid because you'll be out of drive yourself, so no parrying or counter-focus attack available.

 

I think it works like that, and if I got it right it might not be such a bad system since it turns stun from a lose-more system into a way for your opponent to punish you for mishandling your meter.

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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, PVL_93_RU said:

- how well matched  the hitboxes and move animations are

I paid attention to some Ryu footage. Everything matched up perfectly.

 

36 minutes ago, PVL_93_RU said:

- characters getting gutted or having certain moves missing/locked out (eg V just hates rekkas for some reason) 

Jamie has Rekkas (and a bunch of moves, Dante-like movelist.)

 

Ryu and Chun got a bunch of new moves. His HP Fireball is really fast.

 

Honestly, they seem to be allowing characters to be strong and keeping everything together with the universal mechanics (not just Drive).

 

If this sounds similar, it's because ArcSys is well known for doing that.

 

I don't have anything on hand, but there's some good footage around. Game looks as legit as it gets.

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Mr.Cipher Level 11

Mr.Cipher

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Volt said:

Oh, be quiet. You do the same.

 

Yes, but I do so because I think it's a good thing.
They seem to see it as an insult or something.

 

What is weird, since I am not looking negative at SFVI this far.

I still want much more informations tho.

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Skort Level 14

Skort

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Shouldn't you be posting G vs Ryu match footage in the SFV thread

 

Eh, mostly posted that for the lols 😉     

 

When i played Falke a bit and faced Rashid, that was basically how "footsies" go. I swear i think Falke has the only non brain dead activation in the game ( her VT 2 ) , where it actually requires a confirm in order to be safe while Rashid just "does stuff". 

 

Anyway, enough about V, whens that SF 6  news, how many hours left ? 

Edited by Skort
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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Volt said:

 

Honestly, they seem to be allowing characters to be strong and keeping everything together with the universal mechanics (not just Drive).

 

If this sounds similar, it's because ArcSys is well known for doing that.

 

Let's see...

 

A3 full of universal system mechanics, CvS2 is full of system mechanics, Darkstalker is full of system mechanics....

 

Quote

Hey look, Capcom is doing the ArcSys thing.

 

 

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted

You can definitely see that they're not half-arsing this. No matter how this eventually turns out and whether people will like it or not, there's a lot of heart and effort going into this game.

 

Let's just hope there's no decision making suit up at Capcom who's going to ruin this with some ridiculous games-as-a-service approved business model. But looking at RE and Monster hunter and whatnot I think we can all look forward to this optimistically.

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