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Street Fighter 6 Lounge: The FGC has a crack problem.

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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ToreyBeans Level 13

ToreyBeans

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'll be honest enough to admit that during the beta, I was pressing HP+HK to do v-trigger to make my moves safe and bulldoze with a nice comeback lol. But yeah, no can't do that! Had to play actual footsies and even though I was a Five Star Silver Ryu, my footsie game could certainly use a boost. I'm just grateful for the progress I made and I'm not gonna let the learning curve trip me up. I had fun with SFIV and SFV and I'll be dawggone to request changes built into the ecosystem of the game. I'mma git gud or I won't - no excuses necessary. 

Edited by ToreyBeans
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JustBooming Level 13

JustBooming

Posted
Posted

I've come to terms with the fact that every new SF will have shit I like and shit I dislike. Be it music, overall feel, graphics, offence/defence being skewed too strong in one way or another, I fucking love digging into the new stuff. I fully expect SF6 to have things in it that piss me off, but I trust that I'll get over it, and find things I love. I admire the fact the SF team reinvents the game so often.

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TWINBLADES Level 15

TWINBLADES

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Hecatom said:

What is funny is how some people are willing to say that SF4 was better but not be willing to go back to the game, and just say it was "good" due the memes.

It’s this shit right here too LMAO 

like nigga you ain’t making money off fighting games why you playing the one you don’t like?

*crickets*
yeah exactly stupid nigga shut up lmao 

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Hecatom Level 18

Hecatom

Posted
Posted
Just now, TWINBLADES said:

It’s this shit right here too LMAO 

like nigga you ain’t making money off fighting games why you playing the one you don’t like?

*crickets*
yeah exactly stupid nigga shut up lmao 

 

Sadly, this mentality is very prevalent, even during the sf4 heydays.

Where people rather play a game they don't like because more people are playing it than play the games they like because they are "dead games" or "discord games".

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted

And in more dumbshit hot takes:

 

 

 

 

You know...the one great thing about M:TG tournaments was the format. Play swiss, pairings were randomized and it is what it is. Now though, if you did well in a previous tournament or you got any type of clout, you can essentially shame TOs into making sure you get paired up with somebody who isn't good first round because that's fair.

 

 

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Shahenzan Level 10

Shahenzan

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

Can’t you just parry the fireball and get drive meter for a successful parry?

 

im actually asking the question. I didn’t play the beta and not too familiar with the parry startup and windows

Parry is active frame 1 and active as long as you have drive meter to hold it down. You could parry to neutralize the fireball, then drive rush in if you wanted to try and gain space. You could gamble on DI if your DI has a long range, that also absorbs hits from frame 1. In that particular clip though chun didnt have those options even if she wanted to use them bc she was in burnout. Chun might also have character specific anti-fireball options that dont use meter but I have no idea what they are

 

fireball characters being able to call out neutral jump from that range is definitely pretty strong but...idk just gotta mind the game when you dont have drive and they do

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted

Wait, I thought Drive Rush was 3 bars? Why did Guile only have to use one bar in that clip? Or is it only 3 bars if you cancel from another move?

 

In any case, yeah, that short video kind of dismantles my idea that Gief will be dumb with Drive Rush. Correction: everyone will be dumb with Drive Rush. Not a bad philosophy actually. SF5 would have been way more balanced if every character had Aegis Reflector.

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Pair of Rooks Level 14

Pair of Rooks

Posted
Posted
On 10/10/2022 at 4:54 PM, Sonero said:

don't know, its hard to say how reactable or not they are without playing it. But even in Strive I'm hitting people with charged dusts and those are 28 frames. We'll see. They need them to be somewhat cheap so you can use them for stunning people in burn out. After that its just a math problem

Yeah, even with the 6f input delay it's still comfortably reactable for youngbloods and 30yo heavy players.  If they nerf it at all I think it would just be damage scaling or adv on block to make Drive Rush look like the better bargain.

 

Charged dusts are rarer cause they are clearly unsafe on block. It only takes a few players blocking and punishing that on reaction to dissuade constant attempts.

 

(But yeah occasionally I'll match vs a person that discovers I'm free to charged dusts then it's 5[D] all day erryday.  Way to take advantage of an old man's oldness you heartless bastards.)

 

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Pair of Rooks Level 14

Pair of Rooks

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

Can’t you just parry the fireball and get drive meter for a successful parry?

I looked at that plus juri's store move that banishes incoming fireballs.

 

You gain no meter for parrying a FB. 

 

Blocking a FB, you lose a bit of meter. I.e. chip damage affects your meter first, and then your health only after meter is gone (burnout).

 

Parrying a FB means you don't lose meter-chip or suffer the pushback from blocking but that's it.  It's fewer total frames than neutral jump.

 

Juri doesn't gain anything extra from banishing a FB with Store.  A successful banish is identical to whiffing Store. 

 

Store takes more total frames than parry, and requires more careful spacing due to longer startup. 

 

tl;dr  Parrying a FB is a minor frames-used & pushback optimization, nothing more.

 

EDIT forgot to add that successful parry is cancelable (meterlessly iirc) into an attack, so if you have a forward advancing special... 

 

Parry into Drive Rush is also a thing.

 

Parry costs a bit of meter to perform but success just means you recoup your investment. It isn't meter-positive.

Edited by Pair of Rooks
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Daemos Level 15

Daemos

Posted
Posted
Just now, Vhozite said:

So I think I know what you’re getting at, but instead of assuming I’m gonna ask you to elaborate so I can discuss this intelligently.

 

I'll give it a shot.


What do we say as consumers when we accept/buy into the feminization and fetishization of characters like this? The further we go down the more we will abandon masculine archetypes in favor of pornified characters. I say porn because presentation-wise at least it is the sale of sex and it is tapping into the most primitive urges to push ideas and merchandise.

Sure, the aesthetic is merely a tool here, a vessel to entice and then deliver to players a set of "functions" that come together in-game to form a character. If consumers gravitate towards certain "vessels" then so be it.

 

As a developer and an artist you are left with difficult choices, so I understand WHY Capcom and other devs just fold and give the kids what they want. But IMO the right thing to do when such a behavioral pattern emerges in consumers is to take a deep look into why our male characters are failing and attempt to address those things before chopping off their dicks.

 

There is a lot we could've done to improve FANG, Abel, and Hawk in terms of their character and presentation to make them resonate with modern FG audiences. To increase their playtime and reach. These characters were flawed in some ways (gameplay and presentation). Their flaws were more glaring because they could not disguise them with much sex appeal, and that makes it more challenging to improve and re-imagined without that crutch. 

 

I do understand why they did it to Seth, it made sense with him to some extent, but with the others I'm afraid we just lost 3 (maybe 4 if we count Guy)  unique Street Fighter characters. 

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Daemos said:

 

Snip

 

I 100% with everything you’re saying here…you meticulously covered everything I feel about this new “trend” (if we can call it that).

 

People hate the lonely/virgin nerd stereotype, but looking at what I see of the SF fan base there seems to be some truth to it. I mention this because short of these guys magically getting flooded with attention from ladies overnight, I just don’t see this changing. When it comes to stuff you like being ruined by a company catering to the lowest common denominator, the only thing you can really do to fight it is support the stuff you think is good as much as possible and just hope the tide changes somehow. 

 

However we do have to acknowledge that the monetization of these games depends on selling DLC characters and costumes, so we gotta expect Capcom to follow the money. A bit of a tangent, but this feels like an unforeseen consequence of us (gamers) fighting so hard against games costing over $60 in the mid-late 2000’s. If people had been more open to higher upfront costs back in the day maybe we could’ve avoided (or at least delayed) games needing to be dress-up sims to make money. So in a manner of speaking I feel like we did this too ourselves. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Edited by Vhozite
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Daemos Level 15

Daemos

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, EvilCanadian said:

Besides on replacements, Lily is hardly a sex appeal character anyways compared to Manon/Aki.


She isn't the worst offender of the lot but she emerges from the same principles. We still don't know what her character is. Hopefully she is more stoic and doesn't lean too heavy on the naive/dumb/pubescent girl tropes (see Menat/Sakura) but I have my doubts.

I'm also NOT saying that these female re-imaginings are BAD characters designs in isolation btw. 

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EvilCanadian Level 13

EvilCanadian

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Daemos said:


She isn't the worst offender of the lot but she emerges from the same principles. We still don't know what her character is. Hopefully she is more stoic and doesn't lean too heavy on the naive/dumb/pubescent girl tropes (see Menat/Sakura) but I have my doubts.

I'm also NOT saying that these female re-imaginings are BAD characters designs in isolation btw. 

I do not want lily to be bubbly or happy

 

I want her to be 100% stoic just like T.Hawk, with occasionally being sort of pissed off while she's throwing you.

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Shakunetsu Level 17

Shakunetsu

Posted
Posted

I'm not against this character designs, as long as it's not OVER DONE that would SATURATE the SF Universe. 

 

And also don't literally make it some kind of NIGHTMARE BLISS thing like KOF ALL STAR did to Chang and the rest.

 

It's tolerable to SETH because of his/her nature being not a real HUMAN being instead as an artificial one, 

 

I would also tolerate it to BISON because he transfers body, same with Kage, Necali and Twelve but not those that are not narratively established to be able to do that

 

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CESTUS III Level 15

CESTUS III

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Daemos said:

There is a lot we could've done to improve FANG, Abel, and Hawk in terms of their character and presentation to make them resonate with modern FG audiences. To increase their playtime and reach. These characters were flawed in some ways (gameplay and presentation). Their flaws were more glaring because they could not disguise them with much sex appeal, and that makes it more challenging to improve and re-imagined without that crutch.

Tbh the misunderstanding is think a character is'nt already well done just because does'nt have success with the audience

I mean, of course increase their popularity would have been improvement, but more as products rather than as characters

 

Even if in some cases could have been done more to push them (Abel in particular) FANG, Abel, and Hawk are 3 characters that perfectly fit the spirit of SF as series, real problem is that the audience does'nt necessary give fucks about SF spirit, and now that teh internet allow the audience to be loud (social media boosted that by a lot), developers are pressured by marketing to give up part of their vision and deviate their path to fit the request of

🜏 Edmund McMillen 🜏 on Twitter: "Reminder: you have till the 21st to send in pics of you at target with a copy of the target version of four souls to get

(to use same char of that meme, on reality good chunk of japanese audience is part of this too lol)

who say their characters are shit/boring, wich happen mayority of times a char is'nt perceived as cool or waifu

 

 

One thing i appreciated is see Capcom dropping an Honda in SF6 start cast, feels like developers will to push in a character they wanted regardless of internet whining about "wasted slots"

It's good that they can push as many "Hondas" they can in start cast, because after the marketing pressure would be harder to contrast during DLC seasons, as there will be even greater push on try to figure out wich characters will sell more rather than wich characters would help most cast variety or cover archetypes

 

Personally i like SF6 start cast, just wish we got Dudley for boxing and Sagat (or Adon) for muay thai too

Edited by CESTUS III
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