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The Street Fighter V Thread

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, BornWinner said:

A look into the grounded footsies Guilty Gear used to have.

 

That is as obnoxious, brainless and hard to fight against as it looks like.  Justice has a bunch of lopsided match ups all over the place because of it.

 

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KingTubb Level 11

KingTubb

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Reticently said:

but you never hear about zoning in games doing it well.

Just spitballing, but it might be because if zoning is done well, it's transparent? 

 

Maybe the SC series? I feel like that has so much of its gameplay around range and characters can really effectively zone without it being too strong because you have the 8 way run. Most super far reaching attacks are slow and are narrow, so you can side step and approach... 

 

I don't feel like you ever hear much about zoning in 3d fighters tho

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Reticently said:

What game has the best balance for zoning?  If MorriDoom is too much, and SFV is too little.

 

I don't really have an opinion on this one, but you never hear about zoning in games doing it well.

 

I believe it’s a matter of perspective tbh. Sagat players that can zone well in a game will love it, while other players will scream bloody murder about it. I don’t know if there will ever be a game where people will completely agree that it is balanced.

 

In a lot of games that seem somewhat balanced (SF2, MK11, etc) it depends solely on your character. Having MK11 Kitana deal with a zoner without teleport equipped and it’s a nightmare, but having Shang Tsung  smoke’s ability is like, “I fucking dare you to throw a projectile”.

 

A lot of people bitch when their main can’t get around stuff, yet they won’t pick another V-Skill or character, or just walk forward and block.

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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, KingTubb said:

I don't feel like you ever hear much about zoning in 3d fighters tho

I think the expectation is a little different in 3d fighters, the norm there seems to be that projectiles have typically not been amazing because of sidestepping.  So when zoning is relevant in 3d fighters it's usually more of a reach issue (which is zoning but maybe not always discussed like it is).

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KingTubb Level 11

KingTubb

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Reticently said:

usually more of a reach issue (which is zoning but maybe not always discussed like it is).

Yeah, I guess that's what I was trying to say with "transparency" 

 

Fireballs are what we think about when we think of zoning, but what about them good ass buttons?

 

I personally think Chun is the best zoner in 3S cause cMK and HP control the space in front of her so well. But she wouldn't be called a zoner cause her fireball is not good. 

 

 

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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

people bitch when their main can’t get around stuff, yet they won’t pick another V-Skill or character,

There are always going to be bad match-ups, but if a character is a dead-end against an entire fundamental concept I'm going to say that's probably a design fuck-up.  Team games aside anyway, and fuck players who won't at least choose the appropriate options for their characters where available.

Edited by Reticently
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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, KingTubb said:

HOLD it right there! | Street Fighter | Know Your Meme

 

SF2's zone is baaaaaaad. Honda eats shit against anyone with a fireball!

Wait.... 

yeah, and I was thinking of your Honda throughout most of my post 🤣 not that you bitch (that’s more a Twitter/general consensus thing).

 

also, I know you’re just playing along, but yeah, this is basically my point, Honda struggles with zoning, but pick Vega or Chun or someone and the balance swings completely.

 

I actually think the balance of SFV zoning isn’t too bad tbh. Yeah, a lot of people have projectiles and a lot of people have ways about getting around them, but as a zoner, you adjust based on this... Sure, you mostly aren’t throwing projectiles from full screen, but doing it outside of your poke range is usually successful, unless you get predictable. I think the only issue is that fireballs do so little damage compared to what a successful jump in/bypass with oki can lead to

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KingTubb Level 11

KingTubb

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Mattatsu said:

I know you’re just playing along, but yeah, this is basically my point, Honda struggles with zoning

Oh for sure, and I'm not one to complain. 

 

I honestly like it, which I know sounds crazy, but that panic you cause a zoner when you get in is delicious. 

 

And it gives me a free excuse when I get cooked like a thanksgiving turkey 

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, KingTubb said:

Oh for sure, and I'm not one to complain. 

 

I honestly like it, which I know sounds crazy, but that panic you cause a zoner when you get in is delicious. 

 

And it gives me a free excuse when I get cooked like a thanksgiving turkey 

Yeah, and I agree. I’d personally rather stick with my main and find a way around it then swap to someone else and have an easier time. I’m typically a one character player (except in SFV where I don’t love anybody) and if zoning is why my character struggles, then I want that experience to improve against it. If I was a tournament player, it’d be different, but doing fun stuff with a character I like is (for the most part) why I keep coming back to a game, so I won’t swap to a character I like less for an easier win.

 

also, good to see you Tubb. I feel like I haven’t seen you in a bit. Hope everything is good with you

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KingTubb Level 11

KingTubb

Posted
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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

also, good to see you Tubb. I feel like I haven’t seen you in a bit. Hope everything is good with you

Thanks, homie! I’m good, just went on vacation cause I’ve been pumped full of the 5G and am invisible now or something. 
 

some pics from the trip:

Spoiler

80AB6E7E-73A7-407D-8163-53C0554E68F7.thumb.jpeg.50cc9b65b48d0119661e435234a58f56.jpeg52F8B948-DFDD-4647-916C-2856797D4F42.thumb.jpeg.f577ba4b61d906dc2b689b64789685c8.jpegA406BA74-DE8D-4352-A826-93FFC232F439.thumb.jpeg.b60764afd4916e09ddd9609efad6f1b1.jpegDA181BF5-0F5C-44C0-90EA-6825933E2059.thumb.jpeg.4cac12c6e375431b05b9bd1f9dab9c67.jpeg

 

Edit: meant to say invincible, but maybe 5G works cause the virus can't see me cause I'm invisible. I dunno 

Edited by KingTubb
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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

I think the only issue is that fireballs do so little damage compared to what a successful jump in/bypass with oki can lead to

 

I don't even think that's the biggest problem. The issue is that this jump-in combo will corner the opponent because every BnB in this game does, at least from the middle of the stage. The corner is such a big momentum shift in this game and most zoners don't have an easy way out. Which is okay, that should be one of their weaknesses – but it's way too easy to put them there IMO. Just look at the Crimson/Idom set. I think Crimson was in the corner at least once per round and despite his ridiculously good defensive choices only ever got out with a huge life deficit despite using the one zoner in the game with arguably the best mobility. Now you can look at this and say "okay, it went down to the very last round between a zoner and a rushdown-grappler" and yes, that's true. But Crimson was doing wonders there with his clutch dash interruptions and overhead blocks. The effort of keeping Laura out is significantly higher than for her to get in.

 

That said if stages were bigger in the current game with V-Shift available Dhalsim and Poison would probably be Triple-S tier or something. So I dunno, maybe the balance is good right now. Personally I just find it super frustrating if that dumb Ken player lands a jump-in and puts me in the corner just because I missed the AA against his 15th jump attempt or something. On the other hand, if you'Re that Ken player, it feels really rewarding getting that dumb jump-in and and turning momentum around completely. I know this because I've been there when I was playing Lucia, who literally has zero anti-fireball tools outside of jumps.

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Dracu Level 12

Dracu

Posted
Posted

That Red Bull final was insane. Never seen someone block everything Laura can throw out like Crimson did, even more so considering it's goddamn Idom behind the wheel. That was nice.

 

Anyone watching that Twitch Rivals MKX thing? It's my first time watching an MK tournament and I must ask... what the fuck is this game? So much cheap bullshit that it's crazy.

The game also looks even uglier than I remember. Bleh...

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Reticently said:

What game has the best balance for zoning?  If MorriDoom is too much, and SFV is too little.

 

SF4 had very serviceable fireballs. Out of all the SF games, that might be one where the fireballs and the anti-fireball tools were evenish.  

 

There were some out of control options like EX green hand and EX chicken wing. They were hella good because fireballs all around were hella good. 

 

Japan probably saw Louffy win Evo with Rose and put a nix to that though.

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Dracu said:

Anyone watching that Twitch Rivals MKX thing? It's my first time watching an MK tournament and I must ask... what the fuck is this game? So much cheap bullshit that it's crazy.

The game also looks even uglier than I remember. Bleh...

I definitely have a soft spot for MKX.

 

you’re 100% right. It is filled with cheap, crazy, bullshit. The gameplay is strictly jank and so are the animations. You know exactly what you’re getting into.

 

it isn’t for everyone, but it’s combo system is one of the most expressive I’ve seen as well. I have had more fun labbing combos in its training mode than any other 1v1 game I’ve played. 
 

complete and utter bullshit, and a ton of fun as a result. Plus it has a great netcode

 

my only gripes with the game are how ridiculously graphic the fatalities are (and not “haha gross” like previous MK games but like actually fucking gross), and how dark the stages are plus how saturated the palette is.

 

I’m fine with the jank animations though, fits the gameplay to a tee

Edited by Mattatsu
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Dragonfave723 Level 14

Dragonfave723

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, KingTubb said:

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/the-new-virtua-fighter-5-is-reportedly-part-of-junes-ps-plus-update/

 

There's no way this is real 

I think this will be only the second time VF5 being released for free for PS+. The first time was back in 2012 for PS3 users. 

https://blog.playstation.com/2012/06/06/virtua-fighter-5-final-showdown-free-for-playstation-plus-special-offer-detailed/

 

I hope the Ultimate Showdown  have rollback netcode. I would be so ecstatic for it. 

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Doctrine_Dark Level 15

Doctrine_Dark

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm all for Nash being buffed in any way possible. I felt bad seeing him struggle so much over the yrs. 

 

I dunno. I fought nothing but Nash players the other day, but I didn't come away from it feeling like his buffs were unnecessary.

Edited by Doctrine_Dark
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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Sonero said:

I'm not forgiving that dude for his season 1 crimes.

 

Making people feel like they were good at SF because they could do unreactable ish all day.

 

Nash doesn't have enough nerfs TBH. They took his legs but left his hips in place. Woshige always f-ing up.

Nash was never as good as people pretended he was. People needed time to figure him out. Which they did right around time the input delay was reduced. Once that happened he was never dominant. Then they hit Nash with nerfs without accounting for the effect of the input delay reduction. 

 

Edit: Side note, it's why I'm not a fan of frequent balance changes. Something may appear strong when it really isn't an vice versa.

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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Mr.Cipher Level 11

Mr.Cipher

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Dracu said:

That Red Bull final was insane. Never seen someone block everything Laura can throw out like Crimson did, even more so considering it's goddamn Idom behind the wheel. That was nice.

 

Apparently both SFV and the Strive Exhibition were played on PC.

That is less Input delay and a game that will actually run at 60fps.

 

Huge huge difference to the usual garbage they have to play on.

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted

Late to the conversation but zoning is not just about flooding the screen with fireballs, and it kind of annoys me when people act like it is. Zoning is about controlling space, and more specifically id say is about keeping the other guy at a distance where you have the advantage. Cammy doesn’t have a fireball but she is quite capable of zoning other characters, at least temporarily, with her buttons. Then you have characters like Axl who zone primarily with long limbs or ranger melee weapons. 

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Sonero said:

 

I'm not whining, but he also didn't deserve any of the buffs to his normals and you know it.

I think this is a pretty interesting comment considering how you just said the other day that they should buff his walkspeed. If Mash had even average walkspeed his buttons would dunk on over half the roster easily. 

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Late to the conversation but zoning is not just about flooding the screen with fireballs, and it kind of annoys me when people act like it is.

 

Because its street fighter. It made fireball specials a pronounced part of the gameplay. Then they kinda shat all over that with this game.

 

Lemme just try and zone people out with Ryu's bum normals.

 

😂

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, BornWinner said:

So the MKX event hosted by Max had to be stopped because there was DDOS attacks and doxing towards the players. Apparently this is common in the NRS scene? Either way it sucks to have a good time ruined by things like that.

The NRS community is honestly pretty terrible lol. This doesn’t surprise me. I do remember reading someone DDOSing someone because they lost an online MKX match. That’s actually why I put on the two-part verification on my PS4/5 lol.

 

I don’t know if many of you remember, but leading up to the launch of MK11, I started making an MK podcast and actually got a decent following on Twitter... until I realized how ugly the community could be so I dipped.

Edited by Mattatsu
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