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Street Fighter 6 Lounge: The FGC has a crack problem.

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted (edited)

Rogue has one too.

 

Not that I think it matters - I just consider it “anime” game.  Mostly for the fact that I like anime games because of how their speed and movement reminds me of MVC2 and not a typical FG (SF, MK, etc).

Edited by Mattatsu
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TWINBLADES Level 15

TWINBLADES

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sonero said:

 

Even people who like MK11 don't want to play MK11.

 

I literally never wanna hear anybody try and defend those games ever again. 

 

😤

I just can’t do it. Port Scarlet over to SF or some other Japanese game. I just fucking hate the movement in MK and dial a combos are so fucking goofy. 
 

Also the new themes fucking slap. Kudos theme sounds like some shit Nicki Minaj would rhyme over and Kim’s sounds so crisp. I really felt the swagger of a black ninja with that one!

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Hecatom Level 18

Hecatom

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

Even people who like MK11 don't want to play MK11.

 

I literally never wanna hear anybody try and defend those games ever again. 

 

😤

 

Is funny how MK11 the game that objectively is a better game in the technical sense and presentation, managed to shoo me away of the franchise.

I loved playing MK9, MK11 just makes me not want to play it, outside few matches with my brother from time to time.

 

The better NRS is getting at making their games, the more boring they feel to play 🤣

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

The better NRS is getting at making their games, the more boring they feel to play 🤣

 

Because nobody goes to NRS games becuase they're good. They go to them because they're a particular type of horse shit.

 

NRS figured out the most balanced way to distribute meter that honestly doesn't get enough praise: you build meter from putting people in a block string, opponent gets meter while getting hit. That's a great system all around. Then after that they're sort of complete insane gibberish full of special moves an insane offense.

 

They gotta go in and just do that. Just be up front with the players and be like "look this game sucks but you'll do some fucked up fun shit to people. So here's this 8 hour story mode to compensate for that". Everybody wins.

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Yiceman Level 11

Yiceman

Posted
Posted

I've always found the combo/juggles in NRS games to be ugly looking. The graphics get more and more realistic, but they still have people bouncing the opponent up over and over with jabs in the corner. It looks stupid. It looks less realistic than other games with more cartoony visual styles.

 

There's a lot to be said for the shorter, simpler air juggles found in SF games when it comes to making a combo look cool.

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HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

I like MK juggles only because of how easy they are to understand. If the person is airborne you can hit them. Honestly I still don’t really understand how juggles in Street Fighter work outside of specific interactions. 

Certain moves in SF have juggle points and the combos are pretty short anyway.  I usually just copy what I see the pros do.  DNF Duel on the other hand drove me nuts trying to figure out why characters were flipping out of combos.   

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Hecatom Level 18

Hecatom

Posted
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, elliephil said:

I always felt the mechanics of Marvel really separated itself from anime games. Not to mention that mvc came out before anime games as we know them. 

 

Although, Darkstalkers does play a lot like an anime game. 😃

 

Nah, Marvel is anime as fuck.

Its mechanics and flow are actually are what make it anime, since are similar to many other games.

 

Dunno why people want to pretend that it is not the case, it borders into denial, like if admitting that is anime somehow ruins it, is hillarious the mental gymnastics some people go to pretend it isn't one.

Edited by Hecatom
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elliephil Level 15

elliephil

Posted
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

Nah, Marvel is anime as fuck.

Its mechanics and flow are actually are what make it anime, since are similar to many other games.

How does the mechanics and flow make it like an anime game? Curious to know where you come from with this.

 

(Not that I disagree, but I like to hear other people's thoughts on the whole "Marvel is/is not anime" discussion.)

Edited by elliephil
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Shahenzan Level 10

Shahenzan

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, elliephil said:

How does the mechanics and flow make it like an anime game? Curious to know where you come from with this.

 

(Not that I disagree, but I like to hear other people's thoughts on the whole "Marvel is/is not anime" discussion.)

haha get ready for an essay

 

so marvel has:
universal magic series/chains

airdashes (even more airdashes than a typical "anime" game since it can allow for up to 8 way airdashing)

neutral defined by very strong movement/space control that typically leads into brutal mixups 

 

Those are all very "anime" traits, IMO. Though the term "anime" itself to me always seemed a really imprecise way to define games. It's not like I was around at the time the term started to come into use, but at first I thought for sure it was a response to games like Melty Blood and Guilty Gear and eventually Blazblue etc based on gameplay. Those games could all be loosely defined as: "airdasher with chain combos lots of movement and powerful oki".  I'm also pretty sure it's a term that arose as a way for SF players to mean "games totally unlike sf", since pretty much every thing people point to as "anime" game traits relates mostly to the gameplay features that are opposite to SF games. Chains instead of links, insane movement instead of more careful measured moves, strong easily accessed pressure and oki...all pretty much the opposite of what SF is held up to be.

 

But after thinking about it for a while, I came to a different conclusion. I think I understand the real reason why the people (usually SF/Capcom players) who use the term as a pejorative never like applying it to Marvel/Darkstalkers/Capcom games regardless of how much they fit that gameplay mold. Remember, "anime" is historically in NA FGC a bad word. It's not just the gameplay arguments people have always had against "dumbass bullshit neutral zoom zoom baby combo" anime games because technically you could apply that to Marvel etc. The real distinction that puts a game into the "anime" bin is...the aesthetic. Specifically how much the aesthetic focuses on sexual themes. Games with rosters that have lots of girls (Melty Blood), especially young girls (Arcana Heart), or the few girls it does have are just on some other shit (Guilty Gear and Blazblue outrageous designs) . "Anime" is a bad word because it is used for games that "attract weirdos", and it doesn't apply to SF/Marvel/Darkstalkers or even SNK games even though those games do have a strong anime aesthetic. Because in the eyes of the people who started using "anime" as a bad word, it doesnt actually mean "anime aesthetic", it refers to the parts deemed especially overly sexual. Calling something "anime" in the FGC really wasn't rooted in gameplay, it was a way to assert moral superiority via aesthetics.

 

It doesnt matter anymore, because that was based on American attitudes in the late 90s/early 00s which were very different and more socially conservative. The culture is a lot more loose in regards to sexualization, young people arent stuffing anyone into lockers for being anime nerds anymore...motherfuckers getting anime tattoos and shit and it's socially acceptable lol. Guilty Gear was the most entered game at the last EVO. Anime..........won 

 

 

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, elliephil said:

I always felt the mechanics of Marvel really separated itself from anime games. Not to mention that mvc came out before anime games as we know them. 

 

Although, Darkstalkers does play a lot like an anime game. 😃

I think @Shahenzan hit the nail on the head, both why it could be viewed as an anime game from the gameplay aspect, and why some people hate that label on Marvel (anime is a bad word, etc).

 

I was going to say the following points anyway, but I look at it as an anime game based purely on gameplay:

- super jumps

- air dashes

- a god damn dash macro (LP+HP)

- a lot of forward dashes are runs

- some type of universal ground combo into launcher

- air combos

- speed

- emphasis on movement

- crazy mixups and OP tools, specials, and supers


I wouldn’t say that any of these factors equal an anime game (3S has super jumps and UMK3/MKX has a run, and neither are anime), but idk, I read through that list and combined, that screams “anime” to me.

 

I definitely agree that it doesn’t have the general anime aesthetic though, which is why I think people won’t put Marvel in the anime camp (not necessarily that anime is a bad word to them, but just because typical anime games share similar aesthetics), but again, I was looking at it purely from a gameplay perspective.

 

Edited by Mattatsu
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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)

I just listened to Kimberly, Juri, and Guile’s SF6 theme and to be honest I don’t like any of them. All 3 of them sound too “busy” and complex. Guile’s specifically also sounds real generic, but I think that’s just cause I’m used to remixes of his normal theme.

 

Do they sell albums of the game music/themes? 
 

Edit: I like Chun-Li’s, but again I feel like there is too much going on.

 

Edit 2: Ryu’s is nice but sounds like it would go better with (pre-SF6) Ken.

Edited by Vhozite
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Daemos Level 15

Daemos

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

I think @Shahenzan hit the nail on the head, both why it could be viewed as an anime game from the gameplay aspect, and why some people hate that label on Marvel (anime is a bad word, etc).

 

I was going to say the following points anyway, but I look at it as an anime game based purely on gameplay:

- super jumps

- air dashes

- a god damn dash macro (LP+HP)

- a lot of forward dashes are runs

- some type of universal ground combo into launcher

- air combos

- speed

- emphasis on movement

- crazy mixups and OP tools, specials, and supers


I wouldn’t say that any of these factors equal an anime game (3S has super jumps and UMK3/MKX has a run, and neither are anime), but idk, I read through that list and combined, that screams “anime” to me.

 

I definitely agree that it doesn’t have the general anime aesthetic though, which is why I think people won’t put Marvel in the anime camp (not necessarily that anime is a bad word to them, but just because typical anime games share similar aesthetics), but again, I was looking at it purely from a gameplay perspective.

 


When I think of an anime fighter I think of all the above - It's a gameplay style heavily infused with the Anime aesthetic and weeb/loli subculture. The latter is the main reason why anime is used as a pejorative when describing anime fighters.

Capcom has never made an anime fighter by that definition, but they are most certainly the progenitors of some of the ingredients commonly found in those fighters including gameplay and aesthetic elements.

Edited by Daemos
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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted

I also wanted to talk a bit more about my feelings about MK11.

 

Essentially, I have a love/hate relationship to MK11…

 

It’s probably my favourite FG for whiff punishing, which is one of my favourite things to do in an FG. IDK what it is about it, but it’s also the best FG I’ve played in terms of learning my opponent’s decisions/habits and punishing them for it. It feels so good when you download your opponent, and I can do that quicker in MK11 than any other FG I’ve played, by far. Finally, I just love the franchise and they really hit the ball out of the park with most of the character designs (I’m not talking about graphics here, but how they show the character’s personality, background/influences, etc).

 

There are a lot of mechanics I hate in the game though (wakeup system, recharging meter, breakaways, fatal blows, being able to flawless block when you’re negative, custom variations, limited combo system, etc). Why they completely ignored the mechanics from MK9 and MKX and made completely new ones for MK11 is beyond me - especially when they weren’t so well thought out (imo).

 

I will always go back to MK11 for the reasons why I love it, and I will also always stop playing it for the reasons I hate it. My opinion on the game changes based on where I am in this cycle… it’s very much like how I treated SFV, at least earlier in the game’s life.

 

I do agree with @Sonero ‘s point that MK should just be a fun, broken af game though. It should be fast-paced, with broken ass tools, and an open combo system. MK9 and MKX are much better games imo. If MK9 had rollback (or was even playable online) and didn’t have some of its glitches (like P1 glitch, etc), I would be all over it. I do prefer it over MKX for a few reasons… That said, if anyone ever wants to play MKX, please let me know. 

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Skort Level 14

Skort

Posted
Posted (edited)

So far for me when it comes to characters i will play and want to play if they are added when it comes to SF 6 are like this : 

 

  • Main character , without a doubt Juri.
  • Alt, gonna be going with Mimi because i want a grappler alt and i like her visual design.
  • I may give Cammy a try as well, always liked her visual design but the gameplay was never my thing. Will see how she plays in 6.
  • Will try Aki but if she plays like Fang , miss me with that.
  • I usually don't bother with charge characters as i dislike the control scheme but i may give Dee Jay a try.

Hopes for DLC : 

  • Laura please
  • Poison please
  • Adon please
  • Gouken please
  • Rose please, i don't plan on playing her but looking at how late she was added in 5's roster for such a popular character it's a major kick in the nuts. She kinda deserves to return early on 6's dlc list.
Edited by Skort
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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

There are a lot of mechanics I hate in the game though (recharging meter)

I actually like the recharging meter in MK11, and I say that as someone who would’ve called it a dog shit idea before playing the game. It’s a double edged sword, but I like the amount of meter you build being divorced from your characters play style and the situation. In other games certain actions are rewarded with more meter than others and it leads to feels bad situations. Like you have Sagat building lots of meter flooding the screen with shots when that’s just something his character does, but then you have a character like Gief who doesn’t have that same option and inside that matchup it feels like one character ends up starving. 
 

The recharging meter homogenizes meter building, but in return I think it removes the inherent bias you get in most games and the ends up feels more equitable.
 

The only thing I don’t like is that defensive meter and offensive meter are separate. For example it always felt dumb that someone could use forward roll on their wake-up and then they still have full offensive meter to dumpster you for 40% when they burned meter to even create that opportunity. 
 

 

 

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ToreyBeans Level 13

ToreyBeans

Posted
Posted (edited)

I mentioned my thoughts on the music in the story thread and figured it fits here too.  I'm going against the prevailing opinion and admittedly I was thoroughly impressed with all of the music. Even had my fiancée listen and she thought it was pretty amazing. Juri's theme is steps above her theme for SFV, which lacked a lot of personality. It was fun to do the Bernie Mac to it while I was on the freeway yesterday lol. I can appreciate that Kimberly's theme is a remix of Guy's theme with a sick trap beat attached to it. Also makes me wonder if we'll get any additional remixes.

 

Luke I think got the "demix" treatment, since he was technically a SF6 character going into SFV with 2 clean versions of his SF6 theme song. The CAPJAMS version is a beast! Kinda funny that when 3rd Strike came out, very few characters retained their previous themes too, like Alex with Jazzy NYC and Yun/Yang with that amazing Crowded Street remix.

 

Honestly I'm glad that the music team is venturing into uncharted territory with all of these creative and inspired themes. I feel that solid themes have a way of expressing the essence of the character well, which is no doubt the case in SF6. These SF6 will age just as well as the EX themes, and the SF3 tracks. In general, SF6 is going to have among the best soundtracks in the franchise. If you don't like em much, maybe they'll grow on you over time.

Edited by ToreyBeans
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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

I been looking for a reason to play MKX again. It is my favorite of the NRS era. 

You’d be playing it on PC right? I can definitely grab it for PC if you want to play… I’ve been looking for a reason to play it again myself

 

Edited by Mattatsu
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Yiceman Level 11

Yiceman

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Skort said:

Rose please, i don't plan on playing her but looking at how late she was added in 5's roster for such a popular character it's a major kick in the nuts. She kinda deserves to return early on 6's dlc list.

Rose might not do so hot in SF6, with her big buttons and fireballs. She'll probably need another redesign. Clearly they should give her teleport as a default move. And maybe a grounded long range scarf command grab...

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Skort Level 14

Skort

Posted
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Yiceman said:

Rose might not do so hot in SF6, with her big buttons and fireballs. She'll probably need another redesign. Clearly they should give her teleport as a default move. And maybe a grounded long range scarf command grab...

 

Yea it depends on how  would they redesign her, fireballs might not be too hot in a game like SF6 with mechanics like parry and drive impact but given the proper redesign while still maintaining some core elements of her past versions i think she could fit the roster quite well.

 

27 minutes ago, Yiceman said:

grounded long range scarf command grab.

...tbh with the amount of crazy stuff i have seen in 5 xD  . Rog / Bison  / Vega having cmd grabs i wouldn't be surprised if Rose got one at this point lol.A baseline teleport i can see it more likely though.

Edited by Skort
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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Daemos said:

I am not on board with these new themes. There's barely a melody, if at all. Guile's theme is the only decent one so far.

Funny, I think the opposite. Except Luke's theme. Whole character is trash tbh.

 

Ryu's theme is definitely my favorite so far.

 

5 hours ago, Daemos said:

When I think of an anime fighter I think of all the above - It's a gameplay style heavily infused with the Anime aesthetic and weeb/loli subculture. The latter is the main reason why anime is used as a pejorative when describing anime fighters.

That's one of the biggest problems with "Anime games". If you look at Guilty Gear, especially XX, there's not a lot of loli pandering despite how a lot of characters are somewhat sexualized. Not just the women, but the men too. Look no further than Johnny.

GG is like, one of the flagships of Anime FGs, so the association with loli pedo scum is unfortunate. Unfortunately, the pejorative branding does have some ground to stand on.

 

5 hours ago, Shahenzan said:

Guilty Gear was the most entered game at the last EVO. Anime..........won 

stephen-curry-thats-right-we-won.gif

 

 

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