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Street Fighter 6 Lounge: The FGC has a crack problem.

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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Pair of Rooks Level 14

Pair of Rooks

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Shakunetsu said:

Thanks man, 

 

I was thinking if a there would be a fighting game that has is all about easy command input like a single direction plus punch or kick, just like Power Rangers BOFTG . Should pianoing and longer input buffer still need to implement?

There's multiple senses of the phrase "input buffer".   Sure a game remembers the last X frame's worth of inputs but there's several uses for it.   One is for sequential inputs, such as qcf+button.  How wide this windows determines how difficult specials, supers, pretzel inputs, etc are to do, either in a combo or raw.  Like, will the move even come out.   A second is for games with stale move negation, where spamming the same move, not necessarily in a row, slowly decays its damage/hitstun/whatever.  A third is for linking one move after another.  Like I want to throw another cr.MP on the exact frame that the current cr.MP ends for a link combo.  This mechanic reduces the chances of nothing happening if you pressed a button a little too early.  (Reversals are in this category, regardless of how they're input.)  I've heard this window is commonly ~3f minimum and it's sometimes implemented by just automatically re-pressing the button for 2 more frames automatically: input-repeat. 

 

Pianoing helps with the last case. But for pianoing to be possible requires having multiple buttons that all do the same or similar thing, like any punch button for a DP.  For a game with simple inputs do they even have multiple strengths/variations of one move?  If not then you can't piano even if you wanted to. If the input-repeat buffer is larger then you wouldn't need to piano anyway. Pianoing is just manual input-repeat.

 

What to implement depends on a game's philosophy.  Easy pick up and play (longer input-repeat) vs there being secrets to discover about the game (like pianoing)  that makes inconsistent aspects consistent.   Some players hate the latter because you must study the game for improvements that give a significant advantage.  Other hate the former because players who invest time in a game should be rewarded for doing so. 

 

There's no right answer. 

 

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-PVL93- Level 13

-PVL93-

Posted
Posted (edited)

Monkey's paw strikes again 

 

Players: WE WANT ROLLBACK IN BBCF, XRD, PERSONA, FIGHTERZ 

 

ArcSys: Say no more fam, we got you!

....

BBCF and Xrd only on PC, Persona is a post release patch, FighterZ s is only on next gen systems 

Edited by PVL_93_RU
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Skort Level 14

Skort

Posted
Posted (edited)

Neo Geo and 3DO were both great and  ahead of their time but too expensive for the average consumer. 

 

Pretty sure i saw a review once that said the 3DO was around 700 dollars + and cartridges were also expensive and rather rare. Yep,try selling that to normal household. 

 

People just stuck to what they knew , NES or Sega and honestly can't blame them as both of those were cheaper and provided a wide library of fun games.

Edited by Skort
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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, elliephil said:

sf4 with working rollback oh boy... purposefully trying to shun sfv's existence at that point lol

 

Its more or less the last FG that wouldn't have it at this point. Fightcade covers a lot (even if not optimal its still more playable than not). Then you have official releases. Some capcom games are stuck in delay like UMvC3 and SF4... Oh that and the Tekken franchise.

 

Once people can play their old games online without issues, new releases being different matters a hell of a lot less.

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Shakunetsu Level 17

Shakunetsu

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

There's multiple senses of the phrase "input buffer".   Sure a game remembers the last X frame's worth of inputs but there's several uses for it.   One is for sequential inputs, such as qcf+button.  How wide this windows determines how difficult specials, supers, pretzel inputs, etc are to do, either in a combo or raw.  Like, will the move even come out.   A second is for games with stale move negation, where spamming the same move, not necessarily in a row, slowly decays its damage/hitstun/whatever.  A third is for linking one move after another.  Like I want to throw another cr.MP on the exact frame that the current cr.MP ends for a link combo.  This mechanic reduces the chances of nothing happening if you pressed a button a little too early.  (Reversals are in this category, regardless of how they're input.)  I've heard this window is commonly ~3f minimum and it's sometimes implemented by just automatically re-pressing the button for 2 more frames automatically: input-repeat. 

 

Pianoing helps with the last case. But for pianoing to be possible requires having multiple buttons that all do the same or similar thing, like any punch button for a DP.  For a game with simple inputs do they even have multiple strengths/variations of one move?  If not then you can't piano even if you wanted to. If the input-repeat buffer is larger then you wouldn't need to piano anyway. Pianoing is just manual input-repeat.

 

What to implement depends on a game's philosophy.  Easy pick up and play (longer input-repeat) vs there being secrets to discover about the game (like pianoing)  that makes inconsistent aspects consistent.   Some players hate the latter because you must study the game for improvements that give a significant advantage.  Other hate the former because players who invest time in a game should be rewarded for doing so. 

 

There's no right answer. 

 

 

Thank you very much man

 

  

9 hours ago, Sonero said:

Slayer with a dash macro would be so ridiculous.

 

I welcome our dash macro overlords on this. There was a guy did do a dash macro. It made Venom play like an entirely different character. Either way, if you have a PC you can't really complain about new games.  Only thing missing now is SF4 with rollback and its GGs fir all game on PC having great netcode.

 

What is a dash macro? is that something like on hitbox related or rollback related thing?

 

Thanks

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted

When you look at it, pretty much every system that was ahead of its time failed to find success. But not all of them were expensive – Dreamcast and PS Vita were both competitively priced but failed to find an audience next to the more popular, but also more pedestrian competition systems of their era.

 

I think it also says a lot that everything we've seen since has been iteration rather than revolution, with both PS4/PS5 and Xbox One/Series basically just being more powerful versions of what came before with little to no game-changing features being part of them on a fundamental level.

 

Nintendo, meanwhile, just re-rolls the crazy idea dice every generation and hopes for a six.

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Shakunetsu Level 17

Shakunetsu

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, delete_me said:

When you look at it, pretty much every system that was ahead of its time failed to find success. But not all of them were expensive – Dreamcast and PS Vita were both competitively priced but failed to find an audience next to the more popular, but also more pedestrian competition systems of their era.

 

I think it also says a lot that everything we've seen since has been iteration rather than revolution, with both PS4/PS5 and Xbox One/Series basically just being more powerful versions of what came before with little to no game-changing features being part of them on a fundamental level.

 

Nintendo, meanwhile, just re-rolls the crazy idea dice every generation and hopes for a six.

 

Yeah it Dreamcast was a head of it time and also had almost arcade perfect ports and had decent titles

 

PSP is the only one I think that had been successful among the "ahead of it's time" unit the rest were all a failure.

 

Nintendo was in an advantage because of many nostalgic IP and parents choice for kids,

 

and every time that Nintendo also tries to innovate it also fails 

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Shahenzan Level 10

Shahenzan

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, PVL_93_RU said:

Monkey's paw strikes again 

 

Players: WE WANT ROLLBACK IN BBCF, XRD, PERSONA, FIGHTERZ 

 

ArcSys: Say no more fam, we got you!

....

BBCF and Xrd only on PC, Persona is a post release patch, FighterZ s is only on next gen systems 

Based on everything ive heard on the subject of adding rollback to things that weren't designed with it in mind, this was really the only way it was gonna happen realistically

 

Any game that ends up getting high quality rollback is a winner, the real losers are games with poorly implemented rollback bc there is a real chance they will never improve. Persona might fall into that camp if it stays at a fixed 3f input delay,  sfv also cursed with janky rollback, type lumina on pc has some issues... those are the monkeys paw games

Edited by Shahenzan
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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

and every time that Nintendo also tries to innovate it also fails 

They failed twice (Virtual Boy and WiiU) but their biggest successes in recent history have been the results of innovation (DS, Wii, Switch). So no, can't really agree with that.

 

But they've never made a system that felt ahead of its time, it's usually just a wacky concept that finds an audience or fails to do so.

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-PVL93- Level 13

-PVL93-

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

So wait a minute, Punk lied about a dudes hygiene because he couldn't take an L? Seriously!?

Punk's an omega tier bitch and has been one for years. He just got away with it through dominant performances at SFV events and shrugging losses off as messing around with non main characters or whatever. Now he's catching Ls in almost every game and immediately brings up an OS on twitter, including but not limited to the opponent bring stinky. Pretty sure he pulled that card already at EVO too. 

Fuck him. 

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Darc_Requiem said:

So wait a minute, Punk lied about a dudes hygiene because he couldn't take an L? Seriously!?

 

Its because he lost to Goldlewis. Its Not A Big Deal ™.

 

Punk was gonna be on some bullshit but this time its that the guy smells.  He's never really insulted a player like that til' now.

 

24 minutes ago, PVL_93_RU said:

Now he's catching Ls in almost every game and immediately brings up an OS on twitter, including but not limited to the opponent bring stinky.

 

Before it was the monitor, or the ambiance, or the plane ride, or who knows what else. Now its a smell check.

 

If you're gonna be that level of salty, do it in private. Its one of those things you don't need let other people know about like jerking off to feet or being a furry.

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BornWinner Level 17

BornWinner

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Darc_Requiem said:

So wait a minute, Punk lied about a dudes hygiene because he couldn't take an L? Seriously!?

It can never be about Punk’s skill as a player. It’s always some other force that caused him to lose. He can’t complain about characters (Goldlewis is seen as low tier while Sol has stayed solid thoroughout), monitors, lag, or control. This leaves him to do what he did and blame the player himself.

 

Jury’s out if he was being truthful (I’m going with no because no one else brought up Nuppers and it’s said by Punk after a loss), but he shouldn’t have done that on Twitter. Not about a specific person who was shown on camera. 
 

This is meme is the video of the match I saw and he got destroyed in it.

 

 

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Shakunetsu Level 17

Shakunetsu

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Sonero said:

SF6 gonna help its older brothers too. Just watch.

 

I'm still hoping an updated new version of Street Fighter 4 with New Characters for Nintendo Switch

 

I wonder what will happen to Sony and Capcom exclusivity deal with SF5? Will it be lock on the playstation consoles like ST Revival for Nintendo?

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted

I don't think Rolento would be as bad as some of the stuff in Strive. Feel like SF4 could've used one more small balance change where they adjust certain things. Unfortunatately Japanese balancing philosophy isn't to do small adjustment, its to take a game that's close to being in a great place and shitting all over it for the hell of it.

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