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Darc_Requiem

By Darc_Requiem
in General Discussion

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Camacho Level 13

Camacho

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, RSG3 said:

I mean this is probably a huge part of it. Sonic games honestly REQUIRE replay to be fun. They aren't all that fun the first time in much the same way a racing game isnt very fun the first time because you dont know the course, the car, or really the game at all. I had an NES and a Genesis as a kid and my friend had the SNES. I had the opportunity to play Sonic till i could practically do the Zones with eyes closed. It makes a huge difference.

 

It doesnt really tho. What it tells us (and some other lines in other posts) is that you dont stick with them long enough to learn the maps to be able to go properly fast.

 

And thats fine by the way. Like if thats not your bag that cool. Thats fine. Replaying stages, courses, whatever over and over and over AND OVER AND OVER isnt everyones idea of fun. A lot of people are one and doners, or only a have a couple in them, while Im on what has to be my 100th playthrough of Final Fantasy Tactics because that job system just never gets boring to me.

 

Sonic requires time. Its not a sit down and instant gratification/reward type of game/series. Its a series that demands you play again and again and again in order to earn the right to go Sonic Boom. If you dont have time, or desire to put in...that time...then you'll probably never find these games fun because they what want from you. They where designed tall and wide so you would replay them 100s of times finding the absolute best route through the stages.

 

Here is a typical Mario World stage

 

spacer.png

 

And here is a typical Genesis Era Sonic Stage

 

spacer.png

 

Notice the Sonic 2 stage has mutiple routes. They want you play it over and over and mix and match the 3 levels of stage to find a route that is fastest for you. Those are the first stages of their perspective games to by the way. The MArio Stage is the one to the left of Yoshis house, and the Sonic one is Zone 1 of Emerald Hill.

 

Most of what I play, and pretty much every game I ramble about on here, are games I really sink my teeth into- absolutely not a casual one and done person on a game I really enjoy, especially retro or modern retro games that aren't an enormous time sink for a single playthrough (currently at 86 hours in something as new as CotM2, for example).  I play retro and "modern retro" games more than anything else, and I'm in the demographic that grew up with that first handful of Sonic games. I genuinely enjoyed them as a kid, and I can't get into them now. 

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DarkSakul Level 15

DarkSakul

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, nickmanx5 said:

all right everyone its time for the true platformer mascot to return! release croc 3! where is it!

*cricket sounds in the distance* 

 

2 minutes ago, iStu X said:

Weird way to spell Klanoa

Klonoa*

 

And the height of Klonoa is Klonoa 2: Lunatea's Veil for the PS2 ( unless you are using a Framemister or OSSC, as you be ready for losing sync with every screen transition). 

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DarkSakul Level 15

DarkSakul

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, M A R T I A N said:

Oh sorry. Sonic 1-3 and S&K. I guess in my head I never really thought of CD as a mainline game but it really is...

I feel Sonic CD is part of of the mainline series, it both did and didn't happen as the story revolves around time travel and time manipulation. 
If you don't get all the time stones and fix the past, Robotnik does a "Thanos Snap" his Death Egg back into existence like nothing you did matters. 
But if you get all the time stones, you do you own Snap, you save time and the events of CD technically never happens. 

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RSG3 Level 18

RSG3

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, DarkSakul said:

You don't have to keep on chiming in about your hate boner for the blue blur himself.
Almost as bad as an Archie Sonic fan. 

You sure are one to talk with how often you voice your unasked for venom about games other people like.

 

You are the poster child for the pot calling the kettle black my dude lmao.

 

12 minutes ago, Camacho said:

Most of what I play, and pretty much every game I ramble about on here, are games I really sink my teeth into- absolutely not a casual one and done person on a game I really enjoy, especially retro or modern retro games that aren't an enormous time sink for a single playthrough (currently at 86 hours in something as new as CotM2, for example).  I play retro and "modern retro" games more than anything else, and I'm in the demographic that grew up with that first handful of Sonic games. I genuinely enjoyed them as a kid, and I can't get into them now. 

Yea man, just sounds like they arent really for you, and thats perfectly fine. To be honest with you I find most Mario games to be mechanically shallow and think they hide it by dumping a shit load of tools on your head and hoping it fixes the issue for them. I think thats how how we got the Cape. "Wouldnt it be cool if you could fly?" without learning their lesson from the Racoon Tail and figuring out how to make the cape a mechanically rich idea. Its just a mehcanic, take it or leave it. Doesnt matter. Sonic may have fewer mechanics but it asks you to use all of them and be good with pretty much all of them, and is imo a more mechanically rich game because the mechanics of the game actually matter almost all the time. Most people disagree with me about Mario in general tho so hey lol. I generally find Mario games to be kiddie pools with shit loads of toys in them, choose any toy, it doesnt matter, while Sonic games are deeper and the toys provided are beneficial to helping you with the deeper water.

 

Meh that ananolgy sucks.

 

 

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nickmanx5 Level 9

nickmanx5

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Camacho said:

One of my co-workers had a high school classmate that got suspended upon being caught beating his meat to sonic porn in the school library. It seems that the extremes of the sonic fanbase get a bit more weird than most.

man if you went to public school chances are you know or heard of somebody getting suspended for looking at something like that. there was a whole group of niggas that got suspended for looking at sailor moon porn in like 5th grade where i went to school.

 

they deserved it tho since sailor mars is clearly the best.

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Camacho Level 13

Camacho

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, RSG3 said:

You sure are one to talk with how often you voice your unasked for venom about games other people like.

 

You are the poster child for the pot calling the kettle black my dude lmao.

 

Yea man, just sounds like they arent really for you, and thats perfectly fine. To be honest with you I find most Mario games to be mechanically shallow and think they hide it by dumping a shit load of tools on your head and hoping it fixes the issue for them. I think thats how how we got the Cape. "Wouldnt it be cool if you could fly?" without learning their lesson from the Racoon Tail and figuring out how to make the cape a mechanically rich idea. Its just a mehcanic, take it or leave it. Doesnt matter. Sonic may have fewer mechanics but it asks you to use all of them and be good with pretty much all of them, and is imo a more mechanically rich game because the mechanics of the game actually matter almost all the time. Most people disagree with me about Mario in general tho so hey lol. I generally find Mario games to be kiddie pools with shit loads of toys in them, choose any toy, it doesnt matter, while Sonic games are deeper and the toys provided are beneficial to helping you with the deeper water.

 

Meh that ananolgy sucks.

 

 

You know, the way you're describing Sonic games is almost reminiscent of how I'd explain why I like the PS2 Shinobi so much more than the 3D Ninja Gaiden games. Limited tools that you have to master, path optimizing, and speed. That Shinobi title also has the classic "Sega feeling" soundtrack.

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RSG3 Level 18

RSG3

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Camacho said:

You know, the way you're describing Sonic games is almost reminiscent of how I'd explain why I like the PS2 Shinobi so much more than the 3D Ninja Gaiden games. Limited tools that you have to master, path optimizing, and speed. That Shinobi title also has the classic "Sega feeling" soundtrack.

Dude thats a lot of what I love about PS2 Shinobi. Its a game of pure efficiency. I like Ninja Gaiden for that as well, but its also important to note i played DMC3 before NGO/Black so "Limited and efficiency focused" meant something a bit different to me then haha.  But yea Shinobi is like...pure optimization, speed and efficiency. Its so much fun when you nail a stage, or shit even a fight. Getting a full  Tate 1 hit kill on Hiroko the last boss is one of the high lights of my gaming career/memories. Ninja Gaiden Black does stuff like an "Open World" that helps elevate it in its own way (Wish Bayonetta would do this), on top of its fantastic combat, many things the sequels NGII and 3 ditched that i found to be net losses imo. 

 

But yea Sonic and Shinobi kind of do have that Zen where you just learn a route and efficient way of playing that completely changes the game into something else. I wish Nightshade was half as good, tho i still think its a fun game, its just not Shinobi 1 good.

Edited by RSG3
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nickmanx5 Level 9

nickmanx5

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Camacho said:

You know, the way you're describing Sonic games is almost reminiscent of how I'd explain why I like the PS2 Shinobi so much more than the 3D Ninja Gaiden games. Limited tools that you have to master, path optimizing, and speed. That Shinobi title also has the classic "Sega feeling" soundtrack.

yo wish more people knew about ps2 shinobi that game is pretty awesome. i have nightshade too but i haven't started it and people don't seem to talk about it.

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JHDK Level 1

JHDK

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, RSG3 said:

Dude thats a lot of what I love about PS2 Shinobi. Its a game of pure efficiency. I like Ninja Gaiden for that as well, but its also important to note i played DMC3 before NGO/Black so "Limited and efficiency focused" meant something a bit different to me then haha.  But yea Shinobi is like...pure optimization, speed and efficiency. Its so much fun when you nail a stage, or shit even a fight. Getting a full  Tate 1 hit kill on Hiroko the last boss is one of the high lights of my gaming career/memories. Ninja Gaiden Black does stuff like an "Open World" that helps elevate it in its own way (Wish Bayonetta would do this), on top of its fantastic combat, many things the sequels NGII and 3 ditched that i found to be net losses imo. 

 

But yea Sonic and Shinobi kind of do have that Zen where you just learn a route and efficient way of playing that completely changes the game into something else. I wish Nightshade was half as good, tho i still think its a fun game, its just not Shinobi 1 good.

Revenge of Shinobi is still my favorite. 😕

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RSG3 Level 18

RSG3

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, nickmanx5 said:

i have nightshade too but i haven't started it and people don't seem to talk about it.

Its a good game its just not Shinobi good. Thats the problem. If Nightshade had come out first people would think it was a good game that was improved upon by its sequel and would probably be fondly remembered...but it didnt. It came after Shinobi so its just the disappointing sequel that couldnt live up to its previous effort. Still a fun game.

 

3 minutes ago, JHDK said:

Revenge of Shinobi is still my favorite

I havent played very many of the 2D Shinobi games so i cant really comment there. The few i have played i remember thinking where fun but kinda stiff. Thats a very limited assesment tho, i wouldnt put any weight behind it.

Edited by RSG3
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misterBee Level 18

misterBee

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, JHDK said:

You're one of THOSE guys who thinks that you ought to be able to roll top speed through the whole game, aren't you?

Damn straight I am.

 

Sonic The Hedgehog Sanic Hegehog GIF

 

I really liked Sonic CD and Sonic Adventure 2.  The Advance games were alright.  Going back to them now is way less fun than when I was a kid.

 

But really the best Sonic game is this one:

 

Sonic_Battle_Poster.jpg

 

  

5 hours ago, M A R T I A N said:

Please detail why the first four Sonic games are horrible platformers that are only better in idea 

The whole point of Sonic is that he's a character that goes super fast.  But of course to play you're constantly stopping to kill enemies/navigate traps, etc.  Add in water levels and all of a sudden what's the point?

 

Instead of FEELING THE SPEED you're constantly starting and stopping. Slow-moving Sonic gameplay feels worse than Mario, and I don't even like Mario that much.  When you're not cruising with shit flying past at 90 mph it's just a meh platformer.

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JHDK Level 1

JHDK

Posted
Posted
Just now, Chadouken said:

Man, I don't know about that casting of Mark Wahlberg as Sully in the Uncharted movie. Tom Holland can pass as a young Nathan, but Wahlberg doesn't really look anything like Sully at all. I think they could have done better, right?

Tom Holland needs Wahlberg just to avoid having to go the whole Tom Cruise on a stepstool vs Nichole Kidman route.

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RSG3 Level 18

RSG3

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, misterBee said:

The whole point of Sonic is that he's a character that goes super fast. 

Yea but the whole point of Sonic games is to earn the right to go that fast. That's the game. Figuring out how to go fast.

 

The good ones anyway. I am in no way saying every Sonic game is good.....lord no.

Edited by RSG3
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Chadouken Level 17

Chadouken

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, RSG3 said:

Yea but the whole point of Sonic games is to earn the right to go that fast. That's the game. Figuring out how to go fast.

That's exactly right. Sonic the Hedgehog is basically Speedrun: The Game. It encourages and rewards you to get good enough to go super sonic through a level. As someone who loves speeding through platformers, I can really appreciate the concept.

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JHDK Level 1

JHDK

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Sonichuman said:

 

What the unholy fuck are these goddamned vocals doing shitting up my Guilty Gear?

 

I could forgive Heavy Day, because it was an intro, Ride the Fire barely got a pass, and normally skipped, and Lily was simple enough to simply delete from my library.

 

But this?

 

Blasphemy.

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M A R T I A N Level 1

M A R T I A N

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, DarkSakul said:

I feel Sonic CD is part of of the mainline series, it both did and didn't happen as the story revolves around time travel and time manipulation. 
If you don't get all the time stones and fix the past, Robotnik does a "Thanos Snap" his Death Egg back into existence like nothing you did matters. 
But if you get all the time stones, you do you own Snap, you save time and the events of CD technically never happens. 

This is both what made the game really cool, while also having terrible pacing issues the entire time and why I can never really recommend it as a “classic”, so to speak. The time travel mechanic was a really cool idea with a lot going for it, but it was never one of the Sonic games I took time to learn the stages for. So getting the “true” ending becomes really tiresome looking for the correct signposts and finding terrain that allowed you to pick up enough speed to actually time travel. Not to mention you’d lose access to that chance for the rest of the level if you accidentally bumped into a wall while diemension hopping lmao.

 

That intro though has yet to be topped. Shit absolutely SLAPS, especially back when I was a kid. Only intro that even come’s close is SA1 or Mania.

 

 

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JHDK Level 1

JHDK

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Deadly_Raver said:

are you telling me you are not?  

 

Given the inherent design structure of much of the game?

 

Nope.

 

The objective is to maximize speed and minimize time, whilst also maxing out one's score, whilst also dealing with enemies, environmental hazards, and bosses that require multiple hits in enclosed arenas.

 

It isn't bad design at all. It is quite thoughtfully laid out, actually.

 

But it isn't nonstop pedal to the metal, and nor was it ever intended to be.

Edited by JHDK
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