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The Street Fighter V Thread, vol. 2

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

The point of the contention is the lack of tatsu. That's what the debate has always come down to in my experience. 

Knee.

 

Man developed his own Uppercut to be a Shoto and y'all gatekeeping him. Smh.

1 minute ago, AriesWarlock said:

with this potato mod there's no excuse for @Volt to not play GG on his potato PC

Been running it on 720p Max. Could push to 1080, but Max settings look clean af. 

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

 

 

SF5 account literally posted why Ryu was fucking ass for years..unironically. Yes the man had 0% on all those categories the wack motherfucker.

 

This is some high level of unawareness.

 

 

6 hours ago, Serpent said:

Most people to me play like AIs now, with setups and strings they've drilled non-stop, barely paying attention to what the opponent is doing especially once their string is starting. This is especially true in SFV, but many will claim all games are like that. I don't know, I just know back when I was playing, it was different.

 

Back in one of the Lounges we had a long discussion about a very important design aspect of the SF5 frame data game: the +2/-2 situation. While talking about frame data being structured that way, another layered got added to that in that because of the 3 frame buffer, pressure from meaties on wake up to frame traps are all frame perfect. So when you play SF, you're essentially playing the most reliable SF game in terms of its internal math. A situation where somebody has the advantage won't be a maybe due to execution errors, those are guaranteed all over the place.

 

Because of that, the higher you go in the game, the more that going "off script" is rewarded. There's already tools to deal with auto-piloting. You can delay throw tech a lot wake up meaties and basic frame traps. Once you move past that, you get situations where you're gonna "meaty" with slower normals that catch somebody late teching, you add shimmies, and a bunch of other things to that expand the decision tree. Hell the SF5 training mode even lets you set up late tech situations in the training mode with the frame delay feature. As a matter of fact, @Doctrine_Dark loves him some "suboptimal" pressure. He can pressure you up front and do a new blockstring every time.

 

Depending on some of the characters, you can get some real odd frame trap situations to catch people autopiloting. For example, Cammy could (or still can blow up) random Alex players that love mashing on cr.mp with easy. She frame trap with cr.mk into cr.lp. her cr.mk leaves her at -3, but her cr.lp is 3 frames. So if you get an Alex that's cr.mp happy, you do cr.mk, and follow up with cr.lp buffered into HK spiral arrow. You're -3, they hit cr.mp (which is a 7 frame button), your jab gets there in time to stuff it.

 

Outside of that SF5 also has some situations that haven't been optimized yet.  A good one of those is the throw break situation. After throw break, both are back into neutral. But it isn't exactly neutral because  due to frame data and priority system, some characters have the advantage over others on throw break. Back when I was testing the situations, if I threw Necalli with Old Zeku and he teched, Old Zeku's st.hp would beat every button Necalli could press. In a similar fashion, if Young Zeku  throws Alex and Alex breaks, Young Zeku's st.mp beats a bunch of the buttons (which counterhits and links into sweep). Yeah this are knowledge checks, but some of these add extra layers to knowing opponent's habits.

 

Besides once you go past the first layer of establishing a meaty and other things, you're essentially working through variations on the situation. If you by the numbers, you'll always end up with the same result. If the knowledge check pays off, you keep doing it until they stop. It was the same way with Magneto and basic ROM resets. Once you learn to deal with basic stuff, you get a surprising amount of depth with the way deal with situations in SF5. People just don't talk about it so it feels like its always in paint by the numbers. Although most of the people being beat by paint by the number stuff won't go to training mode to figure shit out so keep getting counterhit I guess. After that though, better start really working out the decision tree in your character.

 

Although that's probably which shimmies are so effective in SF5. Once you do the initial frame trap/throw mix up, you threaten people with the throw by forcing them to flinch. Even that has some ways to defend it and you gotta do goofball options like walk back and hit a heavy to catch people trying to clip your toes.

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted

My win quote with Rose is now on par with that of my previously best character (Falke). I think two of the biggest factors for that were completely ignoring Soul Bind as a reactionary AA and going for cr.HP instead and using V-Trigger for proper setups instead of just randomly teleporting after throwing a fireball in the neutral game. Soul Bind might be the best most situational AA in the game as there are spots where it's just unreliable or too slow but if you land it Rose is arguable a top 5 character for a couple of seconds -- but it's best to use it only from further away and mostly on anticipation. With teleport I stole some stuff I saw on youtube. Quite a few setups she has are straight up disgusting and if she activates V-Trigger after getting a CC sweep you're pretty much screwed if you don't have V-Shift. I dislike winning games that way but every other character is playing the blender so, yeah, give 'em hell Rose.

 

One thing I still need to work on is using target combo into Soul Bind more. I usually tend to end my BnBs with EX fireball to make space and set up something or just with Soul Spiral out of habit, but target combo is often the better choice in that scenario.

 

Anyway, long story short, she's a solid character and a tad better than I initially thought, though certain matchups are a real pain in the ass. Rose players are rightfully complaining about Bison, Balrog and Falke but I swear to god Juri is a nightmare that nobody talks about.

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Pair of Rooks Level 14

Pair of Rooks

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, delete_me said:

 

Anyway, long story short, she's a solid character and a tad better than I initially thought, though certain matchups are a real pain in the ass. Rose players are rightfully complaining about Bison, Balrog and Falke but I swear to god Juri is a nightmare that nobody talks about.

Juri was a hard MU for Rose in IV too. I forget why other than lol reflector.

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Pair of Rooks Level 14

Pair of Rooks

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, Doctrine_Dark said:

 

I know she had a corner unblockable on Rose that was really hard to get out of. If they timed it perfectly, even EX Spiral wouldn't save you.

I was thinking it was for much more prosaic reasons.  Tool interactions & preferred ranges, etc.  Maybe Skort or AresWarlock would remember.  Maybe @Skortknows the Rose/Juri MU in SFV, I sure don't. 

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DoctaMario Level 17

DoctaMario

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Reticently said:

Just a thought, now that SamSho is on Steam we can skip it's netcode and just use Steam's Remote Play feature if anyone ever wants to get games on PC.  As I understand it, only one of the players even needs to own a copy.

Huh how does it work? I'd be down to try it

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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

Huh how does it work? I'd be down to try it

I haven't tried it myself yet, but apparently it's a feature that's built into Steam now that lets remote players be "player 2" (or more) as if they were on the same machine.  I'll look into how to set it up and maybe we can try it out this weekend.

 

The SamSho product page on Steam specifically lists the game as compatible with Remote Play, so I'm pretty optimistic about it.

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Pair of Rooks Level 14

Pair of Rooks

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Reticently said:

I haven't tried it myself yet, but apparently it's a feature that's built into Steam now that lets remote players be "player 2" (or more) as if they were on the same machine.  I'll look into how to set it up and maybe we can try it out this weekend.

 

The SamSho product page on Steam specifically lists the game as compatible with Remote Play, so I'm pretty optimistic about it.

In before "it's like Stadia but on your friend's potato". 

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted

Eh...other games where characters have tools to fight that situation then it's be cool. For all the anti fireball tools in the game, few of them can actually handle a hitbox that big. 

 

I don't think there's anything cool about the thing. If it was in GG where you can air dash and maneuver around the stage better, fine. In MvC3 its basically there being bulljive with Dormammu. But there are other supers and counters to it.

 

Eh its w/e, play Strive.

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Juri was a hard MU for Rose in IV too. I forget why other than lol reflector.

I played both Juri and Rose in SFIV and found both equally annoying as opponents. But Rose's defense in SFIV was excellent compared to how abysmal it is in SFV. That backdash plus FA could get her out of a lot of troublesome situations she just has to block out and hope for the best in this game.

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BornWinner Level 17

BornWinner

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Sonero said:

 

I hope the last character is MvC2 Dhalsim. They'll get lame out and rushed downed at the same time.

 

He'll also have a teleport so his stage recovery game would be beyond top tier.

 

Make it happen Sakurai. 

They should add Faust for max Smasher rage. An anime dude with long range, RNG, and item tossing mechanics? It would set them on fire.

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DoctaMario Level 17

DoctaMario

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Sonero said:

 

This is what I love/hate about the game. Threat matches can turn around like this is really hype,  but you can totally outplay someone for an entire round but if they can land an SSM and/or Issen, they'll win. SSM I'm good with because they're not always easy to hit with, but Issen just does way too much damage for how easy it is to land. 

Edited by DoctaMario
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Phantom_Miria Level 16

Phantom_Miria

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

This is what I love/hate about the game. Threat matches can turn around like this is really hype,  but you can totally outplay someone for an entire round but if they can land an SSM and/or Issen, they'll win. SSM I'm good with because they're not always easy to hit with, but Issen just does way too much damage for how easy it is to land. 

It does take away your meter permanently though, and it carries into the next rounds, which was always something that balanced out the system decently in my opinion.

 

If you totally outplayed someone they'll lose the first round and be forced to use Issen before losing the second, and if they actually land it then they might win that round but then they'll just end up in the third round without meter available anymore against someone who has been beating them and who still has meter.

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Maravilla said:

I mean...apparently rose has a fireball. Def gonna give her a try. Any opinions on rose? Fun factor? Tier level? Etc. 

She only has a fireball in ten or so matchups.

 

Also be ready to curse at some of the usual SFV dumb stuff a lot when playing her until you figure out how to circumvent it.

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