Video Game Discussion Thread vol. 2

[DangerousJ]

Is there any record of how much she made for B1  or B2 for comparison?

 

It seems odd that they could get  Jennifer Hale who is a  more prominent VA if the pay was so low.

 

While I am sympathetic, I don't like how she said Hale doesn't have the right to take over the role. (paraphrasing) 

[Chadouken]

Wait a minute, why is she quoting scripture from the Bible to a Japanese dude? 😂

 

This shit is fucking hilarious.

[Hecatom]

2 hours ago, Chadouken said:

Well of course you don't. Nothing surprising here.

 

You make it sound like it is a bad thing.

This is a tenet of every legal system around the world for a reason.

 

Is idiotic to say the least to always behave like a lynch mob just because someone cried wolf.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Hecatom

[Hecatom]

8 minutes ago, BornWinner said:

I can't imagine Taylor risking her career by lying about how she was treated by Platinum.

 

 

Lying or not, she already ruined her career with this move.

Less companies will be willing to hire her now due this, since they wouldn't be confident that she wouldn't go to social media to steer the pot against them if anything happened that she considers a slight against her.

 

Quote

But we'll see how this plays out. Both of them need to give more information so it doesn't just become people arguing for one side.

 

I doubt we will see more info about this, since due the wording of Kamiya, is easy to assume they will take legal action.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Hecatom

[Chadouken]

7 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

You make it sound like it is a bad thing.

No, just observing that you're always the first to try to discredit any claim anyone ever has. Which is fine, scrutiny is a good thing.

 

I don't really have a dog in this fight- I wasn't going to buy the game anyway. I'm just not into the Bayo franchise. I bought the Wii U one that came with two games and played for about a half hour one time before deciding it's just not my type of game. Maybe it will be of o ever revisit but I have other gaming priorities right now.

 

Honestly, I'm just a little butthurt you down voted my post,  which was supposed to be funny. You giving my craft a thumbs down is the equivalent of only paying me $4K to do the voice of a video game character.

[Hecatom]

32 minutes ago, Chadouken said:

 

Honestly, I'm just a little butthurt you down voted my post,  which was supposed to be funny. You giving my craft a thumbs down is the equivalent of only paying me $4K to do the voice of a video game character.

 

I downvoted it cuz we don't have a boooooooo reaction for bad jokes.

It was easier to downvote than go and search for this gif

 

[Hecatom]

Here are the 1st batch of matches I had with Sonero, Reticently and DoctaMario last weekend on Samsho

 

 

[Hecatom]

 

 

[Darc_Requiem]

Yeah I want receipts on this Bayonetta 3 voice situation. I'm not saying Helena Taylor is being untruthful but at the same time her replacement isn't cheap. Jennifer Hale is literally the last female voice actor you hire if you're hard up for cash.  If they were trying to cut corners, they would have went with an unknown.

 

Edit: I'm not knowledgeable of this industry. @ShockDingodo you have an insight man? This whole thing just seems off to me, but maybe I'm completely wrong about this.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Darc_Requiem

[BornWinner]

38 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Yeah I want receipts on this Bayonetta 3 voice situation. I'm not saying Helena Taylor is being untruthful but at the same time her replacement isn't cheap. Jennifer Hale is literally the last female voice actor you hire if you're hard up for cash.  If they were trying to cut corners, they would have went with an unknown.

Some people are thinking this is not a cutting corners thing, that Platinum lowballed Taylor intentionally to get a more prolific VA for Bayo. Then again, it doesn't seem like English VAs get much in general for their roles. Sean Chiplock talked about how he received $2000-$3000 for Revali in Breath of the Wild. It seems everyone just gets underpaid for Video Game roles when the side character who had about 20 minutes of screen time is paid just a thousand less to the title character in a series. 

 

Anyway, I think it's less to do with how much Taylor was being paid, it's that Platinum went out to explain that the VA change was because of "scheduling conflicts" instead of the story she's saying.

[Darc_Requiem]

8 minutes ago, BornWinner said:

Some people are thinking this is not a cutting corners thing, that Platinum lowballed Taylor intentionally to get a more prolific VA for Bayo. Then again, it doesn't seem like English VAs get much in general for their roles. Sean Chiplock talked about how he received $2000-$3000 for Revali in Breath of the Wild. It seems everyone just gets underpaid for Video Game roles when the side character who had about 20 minutes of screen time is paid just a thousand less to the title character in a series. 

 

Anyway, I think it's less to do with how much Taylor was being paid, it's that Platinum went out to explain that the VA change was because of "scheduling conflicts" instead of the story she's saying.

I'm certain VA's are getting underpaid in general. IIRC there was a big dustup about this a few years ago. It's part of the reason I tagged @ShockDingo. He's a voice actor and he'd have the most insight into the situation of anyone here. I doubt she was replaced because Hale is a bigger name. She is, but typically companies go with a famous person with mainstream appeal when they stunt cast a role. It's how we ended up with Ronda Rousey as Sonya Blade 🤢

[ShockDingo]

3 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Yeah I want receipts on this Bayonetta 3 voice situation. I'm not saying Helena Taylor is being untruthful but at the same time her replacement isn't cheap. Jennifer Hale is literally the last female voice actor you hire if you're hard up for cash.  If they were trying to cut corners, they would have went with an unknown.

 

Edit: I'm not knowledgeable of this industry. @ShockDingodo you have an insight man? This whole thing just seems off to me, but maybe I'm completely wrong about this.

Yup, sure! I personally haven't worked on AAA games, but I know some people who have and the whole community is buzzing, cause it's so crazy.  Helena Taylor's pretty brave for breaking this out, she's risking breaking NDA and retaliation, but like @BornWinner suspects, some of us are thinking it's a lowballing maneuver rather than being strapped for cash. It should be noted that the final offer given to her was $4K whiiiich isn't great. I did an indie game as a character with quite a decent amount of focus and screen time and got over 1K, but she's in a AAA, hugely successful game that may be union and while I'm not too familiar with Bayonetta as a series, I'm hearing she may be playing multiple versions of herself. So all that plus probably like 10+ hours of recording time and she should definitely be getting a ton more. For whatever reason it seems like they lowballed her to force her out and then brought in Hale and probably paid her more.

 

This thread offers some good insight into what a reasonable payment for her would be:

 

 

2 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I'm certain VA's are getting underpaid in general. IIRC there was a big dustup about this a few years ago. It's part of the reason I tagged @ShockDingo. He's a voice actor and he'd have the most insight into the situation of anyone here. I doubt she was replaced because Hale is a bigger name. She is, but typically companies go with a famous person with mainstream appeal when they stunt cast a role. It's how we ended up with Ronda Rousey as Sonya Blade 🤢

Yeah, payment is an issue these days especially in anime (look at how much the actors in the jujutsu kaisen  movie made despite it's HUGE  boxoffice success. Some folks made just $250. NO RESIDUALS) During the pandemic there's been a lot of changes (good and bad), some of the good was that we were getting discussions rolling to better things like representation, allowing remote performers etc. Unfortunately, there's some bad. Recently, Crunchyroll kicked out McCarley from the English dub of Mob Psycho 100 literally just for asking to have a discussion on unionization. No demands, no anything. Then there's the ever-present Hollywood celebs issue for video games and movies that keeps getting worse. 

 

This Bayo3 situation is really, really weird as it currently stands. Jennifer Hale is amazing, I absolutely have loved her for ages, she's a wonderful talent, and super nice and giving, though yeah, you're right, she wouldn't fall under the "famous person stunt casting replacement" scheme. She's a legend, but not a Hollywood star that a company would shamelessly toss out a VA to replace. No one has details past Helena's videos, but it seems Platinum wanted her out for some reason badly and pulled this. The tl;dr of it is that it sucks and is frankly an awful decision from higher ups.

 

Also I'm still haunted by Ronda Rousey as Sonya and that one DJ that was cast as Sub Zero's special costume.

 

Voice actors keep getting disrespected. They'll pay this guy a TON above the actual VAs because he's a celeb, but his line reads are AWFUL.

 

edit: another perspective on the pay

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by ShockDingo

[Darc_Requiem]

@ShockDingoThanks for you insights man. It's good to hear from someone that actually works in the industry. I had forgotten about Dimitri Vegas....he made Ronda Rousey sound like Tricia Helfer in comparison.

[ShockDingo]

Just now, Darc_Requiem said:

@ShockDingoThanks for you insights man. It's good to hear from someone that actually works in the industry. I had forgotten about Dimitri Vegas....he made Ronda Rousey sound like Tricia Helfer in comparison.

No prob man, yeah, that was a nightmare to listen to. I will always remember that they had a reel of him vs Steve Blum Sub Zero's main VA and it was rough. You have so much life, depth and nuance in Blum's lines and then you've got this guy who's putting on tones like a child trying to be a monster while trying to scare a sibling. A lot of people don't realize how difficult voice work is lol

[Hawkingbird]

Never forget

1 hour ago, ShockDingo said:

Also I'm still haunted by Ronda Rousey as Sonya and that one DJ that was cast as Sub Zero's special costume.

Never forget

 

[Wellman]

Helena is a big part of why I came to love the character. It sucks if what she says is true but my cash has already been locked into this game for a while. Although why they would do her like that is crazy, but also can sort of make sense, as I believe one of the new Platinum guys is from Nintendo recently and post Iwata a lot of the big Nintendo executives outside of Miyamoto have seemed more corpo money saving types.

[Darc_Requiem]

8 hours ago, DangerousJ said:

Is there any record of how much she made for B1  or B2 for comparison?

 

It seems odd that they could get  Jennifer Hale who is a  more prominent VA if the pay was so low.

 

While I am sympathetic, I don't like how she said Hale doesn't have the right to take over the role. (paraphrasing) 

We'd need to verify the accuracy of this, but this is true. It looks like she was offered the standard union rate. @ShockDingoThis info accurate?

 

 

 

[iStu X]

 

[RSG3]

That's almost exactly why the sub/dub debate is so funny to me. 

[iStu X]

6 minutes ago, RSG3 said:

That's almost exactly why the sub/dub debate is so funny to me. 

I meant to post that in the lounge. Oops. 😂

[ShockDingo]

1 hour ago, Darc_Requiem said:

We'd need to verify the accuracy of this, but this is true. It looks like she was offered the standard union rate. @ShockDingoThis info accurate?

Unfortunately, I'm not sure about union rates, but the big question would be how much dialogue is on the plate. I'm not familiar with Bayo 3's news, but I heard someone said that she's possibly split in like multiple versions of herself? Is that true? That could drastically add to session time. Especially if they're heavy on the dialogue and heavily emotional moments (especially if there's some branching path madness hah)

[Sonichuman]

Something else that is bothering me regarding this Bayo situation is where Hellena got her sales data for Bayo 1 and 2 from.  She's claiming that both games have made appoximately 450 mil but I'm trying to look up sales data for the games online and that's not even really available.  I only have a rough estimate of how much each game has sold on Switch and the original release (Bayo 1's original release sold 1.35 mil, if I was to high ball that and say that each copy sold at $60 despite knowing that they didn't that'd be 81 mill.  Bayo 2 thus far has sold 1.04 mill on the Switch, game hasn't dropped in price physically and then there's also the case of the selling with Bayo 1 with it when it first got sold but let's high ball this and say that each copy is still worth $60, that's 62.4 mill.  This of course doesn't include Wii U sales and sales of Bayo 1 on PC or the rerelease with Vanquish.)  Even with high balling that puts the difference between what we know has been sold at a high ball and what she's claiming the game has been sold at around 301.6 mill.  Bayo is a great franchise, I love the IP, but objectively this game is a high profile niche character action title.  So I can't in good confidence say that Bayo 1 rerelease with Vanquish or the sales of Bayo 1 and 2 on the Wii U can make up that 301.6 mill + (because again...we're high balling here) between what we know has been sold versus what she's claiming. 

 

I'm not saying I don't believe her or anything but there are questions I'm having about this situation that I want to hear answers too because as it stands right now with the unknowns involved I'm still probably going to end up buying the game but just won't buy it when it first comes out.

[Sonichuman]

5 minutes ago, ShockDingo said:

Unfortunately, I'm not sure about union rates, but the big question would be how much dialogue is on the plate. I'm not familiar with Bayo 3's news, but I heard someone said that she's possibly split in like multiple versions of herself? Is that true? That could drastically add to session time. Especially if they're heavy on the dialogue and heavily emotional moments (especially if there's some branching path madness hah)

This is correct.  If you've seen the latest trailer there is definitely some timeline/multiverse shenanigans going on in Bayo 3.

[Darc_Requiem]

@SonichumanNo clue where she got her numbers from. My best guess was she was counting revenue instead of profit. This just an example but if the total numbers of all versions of Bayonetta 1 and 2 were 7.5 million and it sold $60, that would get to 450 million. Now we all know that that number is stretch and even if it isn't. The bulk of Bayonetta 1 sales were not at full MSRP and that's revenue not profit. If Bayonetta was that profitable, Sega would have funded the sequels themselves instead of taking whatever bag Nintendo gives them to license it as an exclusive franchise to their platform.

 

Edit: Whatever the truth is the one thing that bugs me is her taking shots a Jennifer Hale. Jennifer Hale didn't steal her job. Hellena refused their offer and Platinum hired someone else. She has every right to be salty but that has nothing to do with Jennifer Hale. They didn't hire some unknown scab. They hired a highly regarded and fellow union VA.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Darc_Requiem

[RSG3]

Yea, the shot at Hale was pretty unwarranted. 

 

Honestly I probably won't boycott. In order to be even remotely consistent with that stance i'd have to stop buying just about all art because every creative gets screwed by the money hats. 

 

We just have to keep with this world wide demand for better pay for the work we put in. If she didn't think the pay was enough then she did the right thing turning it down.

 

Hale really has nothing to do with it tho. 

[Darc_Requiem]

I'm not boycotting the game. Based on what's come out about VA pay, if I boycott Bayonetta 3, I would need to boycott any game with voice work. It would be a hypocritical stance otherwise IMO. It's why I thought gaming "journalists" not reviewing games because of toxic work culture was slippery and untenable slope. If you take a public stance on something, you'll expected to take it across the board. When you don't, it looks like virtue signaling for clout. I'm not saying people should or shouldn't boycott the game. Its their money. Although I'll eye people on Twitter with suspicion because there always people taking stances on a hot button issue. They take a stance get their likes and forget all about once the spot goes away.

 

Side note: Not directly related but it's one of things I respect about Sean Penn. After the camera's leave dude is still there. I remember when Haiti got decimated, a couple of years later, he was still there.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Darc_Requiem

[TheInfernoman]

I still am going to play Bayo 3...but this whole VA is merely just a piece of a bigger issue. Sucks to hears what has gone down but again, it's a complicated situation. 

[Hecatom]

This would probably sound shitty, but I don't share the idea that voice actors should get residuals for how much copies a games sells.

I do think that their rates should be better, sure, but to me is absurd to think that a voice actor should get more benefits for how much a game sells while the people who actually worked on it for years are not granted a similar benefit, specially when their work in proportion is way smaller than the work done by programmers, the art department, music department, etc.

 

 

[Hecatom]

Second Batch of matches from last weekend

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Hecatom

[MillionX]

D3 Necro -- Rathma.

 

The build is coming together... I also checked out Raxx's video to see what I was missing on this.  As with other popular Diablo builds...the way this synergizes with itself is insanely good.  

 

...such a shame my old college buddy doesn't play this regularly anymore... and even when he did he was very slow about it... the dude still hasn't even finished story mode yet....heh, my characters' power level left him in the dust years ago.....but back then it was fun; his wife and another friend I knew through them also played for a while.

[Camacho]

If people boycotted products or services every time someone wasn't paid what they think they should, almost nothing would get done and we'd probably all starve. And that's pertaining to important things like food, water, shelter, and energy- much less with luxury and leisure stuff like video games. 

 

Imagine if every disgruntled employee or contractor took to Shitter and drummed up as much attention as this woman. 

 

I also find it interesting that the Shitter mob seems to be way more upset about this situation than Reuben Langdon getting cancelled for personal opinions that had nothing to do with his work. I'd wager a sizeable percentage of the people jumping on the boycott bandwagon were cheering for that guy's cancellation.

 

Actual picture of the Shitter mob:

https://postimg.cc/WFWLNYX1

Edited October 16, 2022 by Camacho

[DarkSakul]

12 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

We'd need to verify the accuracy of this, but this is true. It looks like she was offered the standard union rate. @ShockDingoThis info accurate?

Well I am no expert (I know people who are VAs and they are outraged too), the median pay for voice actor work is about $38.75 an hour. And if we go by these rates $4000 would cover about 103 hours of work (that's the time you put in, not the audio they use). Although pay can be as low as $6.49 or as high as $100. Higher still if you are doing voice work for Audio Books. Question is how many hours is she expected to work

Keep in mind most Voice actors work as VAs part-time as the work isn't steady, many do voice work as a side gig or a hobby instead of a primary source of income.

I know people breaking fresh into VA work got a starting offer better than what Hellena Taylor is given for Bayo 3.

 

5 hours ago, Hecatom said:

This would probably sound shitty, but I don't share the idea that voice actors should get residuals for how much copies a games sells.

I do think that their rates should be better, sure, but to me is absurd to think that a voice actor should get more benefits for how much a game sells while the people who actually worked on it for years are not granted a similar benefit, specially when their work in proportion is way smaller than the work done by programmers, the art department, music department, etc.

 

 

I find this a false dichotomy. Just because someone else is paid shit dosen't mean other has be paid shit too.
Thats like going oh McDonald's employees shouldn't be paid a living wage as that pay raise would be more than I make now as an Accountant.
Maybe you as the accountant should ask for better pay or go to someone who offers better pay then.

[BornWinner]

 

[RSG3]

The programmers and everyone who made the game including the VA should get Residuals. 

 

But that's part of the whole fair pair for fair work thing. 

[Camacho]

10 minutes ago, DarkSakul said:

Well I am no expert (I know people who are VAs and they are outraged too), the median pay for voice actor work is about $38.75 an hour. And if we go by these rates $4000 would cover about 103 hours of work (that's the time you put in, not the audio they use). Although pay can be as low as $6.49 or as high as $100. Higher still if you are doing voice work for Audio Books. Question is how many hours is she expected to work

Keep in mind most Voice actors work as VAs part-time as the work isn't steady, many do voice work as a side gig or a hobby instead of a primary source of income.

I know people breaking fresh into VA work got a starting offer better than what Hellena Taylor is given for Bayo 3.

 

I find this a false dichotomy. Just because someone else is paid shit dosen't mean other has be paid shit too.
Thats like going oh McDonald's employees shouldn't be paid a living wage as that pay raise would be more than I make now as an Accountant.
Maybe you as the accountant should ask for better pay or go to someone who offers better pay then.

How much on the clock time do you think she would have for Bayonetta 3? We're not talking about a game like The Witcher 3 or a Metal Gear game with huge amounts of dialogue. As someone who has spent time in studios doing something much harder than reading lines, I'm having a hard time believing there's more than 40 hours of work involved. 

 

Ultimately, if she didn't think they offered enough, she could say no- which is what she did. That's fine. Platinum could have re-negotiated, or hired someone else, which is what they did. That's also fine. It is their game to make, not hers. This is the equivalent of you getting two bids to have your roof replaced, going with the lower bid, having the rejected contractor tell everyone to boycott your accounting services, then you get Shitter mobbed over it. 

[Camacho]

Two more thoughts on the topic:

 

1. If the writing in Bayonetta 3 is like the first one, they probably paid a 12 year old boy a case of Monster energy drink, a pizza, and a few porno mags- estimated budget $33.76.

 

2. I can understand the lady wanting more pay for the embarrassment of reading the dumbest shit since the 3d Ninja Gaiden games. 

[Darc_Requiem]

Another perspective from someone that does voice work.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Darc_Requiem

[Jurassic]

Finished reading Masters of Doom, the book about how id software first got started up through to the development of Doom III. It was a great book, although there is some fluff in the beginning (Wolfenstein 3-D isn't brought up until almost 100 pages in). Overall it was well worth reading through on how id software created games and explaining the rift between Carmack and Romero.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Jurassic

[Chadouken]

9 hours ago, Hecatom said:

This would probably sound shitty, but I don't share the idea that voice actors should get residuals for how much copies a games sells.

Why not? They are the ones who bring the characters to life and define the nuances of their personalities. I feel like they should absolutely get paid royalties.

 

There's a reason why people are upset over Chris Pratt voicing Mario in the SMB movie. His voice and personality have been defined since SM64, and it's a drastic change.

[Sonichuman]

Personal take on fair wages for VA:  VA after either the game reaching a certain threshold like reaching profitability or the VA has a certain amount clout that goes with their name should get some sort of residuals for their performance.  I'm not talking about substantial like actors get in TV or movies get because ultimately the amount of work that most VA give to VG versus the amount of work that actors give in performance to TV and movies isn't the same.  The should get a decent wage to start out and if the game blows up then they should get residuals on it because IIRC this people who played the characters for GTAV also got paid peanuts in comparison to the amount of money that GTAV continues to make 9 years after it's release.  I'm willing to be those guys probably don't even see a cent for their performances when they kept rereleasing that game for the last 2 generations either.    It doesn't need to be a lot just something that's in good faith like..1% of sales or something.  VA do need more respect in general especially in the VG industry but it needs to be proportionate to the amount of work that they put in versus everyone else who putting work into the project and with also keeping in mind how popular the project is especially if it's something that's making money hand over fist.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Sonichuman

[Sonichuman]

Looks like Kamiya didn't want to deal with Twitter right now

 

[Hecatom]

30 minutes ago, Chadouken said:

Why not? They are the ones who bring the characters to life and define the nuances of their personalities. I feel like they should absolutely get paid royalties.

 

There's a reason why people are upset over Chris Pratt voicing Mario in the SMB movie. His voice and personality have been defined since SM64, and it's a drastic change.

 

Because their work is minimal compared to the work of others involved in the projects.

 

The only reason why we are talking about VA being paid residuals is because it is a hollywood thing.

But this is not the case for the majority of type of jobs out there.

Is absurd that someone who only worked on a project for like a week for example, gets preferential treatment over someone who worked 4 years.

 

Yes some VA become synonymous with their characters, and depending of the type of games, with the story being the primary focus, like something like The Legacy of Kain series, then sure, you can make an argument that the VA is an important thing about the game.

But even then, it is only a small part of everything that it is going around the cutscenes.

 

This also opens the door for smaller projects having to pay residuals to va, reducing their profit margins, which for smaller studios can be a thing of stay a float or close their doors.

 

Is already dumb enough that we are seeing VGs getting their budgets inflated due poor management and the focus on high fidelity graphics and hyper realistyc textures.

Having to pay residuals or paying VA big hollywood style salaries upfront will only increase the costs in an unnecessary way.

 

 

[Chadouken]

11 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

Because their work is minimal compared to the work of others involved in the projects.

 

The only reason why we are talking about VA being paid residuals is because it is a hollywood thing.

But this is not the case for the majority of type of jobs out there.

Is absurd that someone who only worked on a project for like a week for example, gets preferential treatment over someone who worked 4 years.

 

Yes some VA become synonymous with their characters, and depending of the type of games, with the story being the primary focus, like something like The Legacy of Kain series, then sure, you can make an argument that the VA is an important thing about the game.

But even then, it is only a small part of everything that it is going around the cutscenes.

 

This also opens the door for smaller projects having to pay residuals to va, reducing their profit margins, which for smaller studios can be a thing of stay a float or close their doors.

 

Is already dumb enough that we are seeing VGs getting their budgets inflated due poor management and the focus on high fidelity graphics and hyper realistyc textures.

Having to pay residuals or paying VA big hollywood style salaries upfront will only increase the costs in an unnecessary way.

Yeah I don't agree with this. If someone is lending their talent to bring a character to life in such a tangible and personal way, they deserve to be paid more. I don't consider their contribution to be minimal. I'm not saying Hollywood actor pay days, but getting a small cut of the sales seems appropriate. And I also think other devs could get a cut, too. Especially from AAA studios where the top brass and publishers make $millions.

 

I didn't realize how shitty these VAs got paid. Especially when games are becoming more and more like interactive movies. It's a fucked up practice in my opinion. 

[Hecatom]

4 hours ago, RSG3 said:

The programmers and everyone who made the game including the VA should get Residuals. 

 

But that's part of the whole fair pair for fair work thing. 

 

I don't necessarily disagree.

But I also don't agree.

 

I think that people should be paid good rates.

Imo, expecting people involved on a project to get residuals is a can of worms that it would be a detriment in the long run.

Increasing the operating costs of studios, and potentially blocking games to be ported over new hardware to avoid paying said residuals for example.

 

Then add, that the jobs and industries that pay residuals usually low ball the salaries of the people involved, since they are expected to offset that via the residuals, and is still not unheard of that people get screwed on the payments of the residuals at the end anyway.

 

Like what happens at times in hollywood, where with some accounting magic, a studio can say that a movie never made a profit and people are never paid because of it.

I can already picture, something like a studio closing down and "selling" their assets to a new entity that is essentially the same company just to avoid paying people.

 

[Hecatom]

1 minute ago, Chadouken said:

Yeah I don't agree with this. If someone is lending their talent to bring a character to life in such a tangible and personal way, they deserve to be paid more.

 

 

Which is why I think their rates should be better. Sure.

But I don't see VA as something that should get preferential treatment over the other work done around the games that at the end is way more important and adds more to the experience.

A game like Bayonetta is about the gameplay, the VA is tangential to it.

 

[RSG3]

17 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

Imo, expecting people involved on a project to get residuals is a can of worms that it would be a detriment in the long run.

Luke Skywalker gets residuals, it's far far too late to talk about cans of worms. 

 

But I also said everyone involved should get residuals. If Nintendo sells a game 30 years old on their goofy store whoever made it should get a check in the mail. 

 

Everyone. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by RSG3

[Chadouken]

9 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

Which is why I think their rates should be better. Sure.

But I don't see VA as something that should get preferential treatment over the other work done around the games that at the end is way more important and adds more to the experience.

A game like Bayonetta is about the gameplay, the VA is tangential to it.

I'm not arguing for preferential treatment. If you read my post, I actually say that all the devs should get a bigger cut because the publishers are making $millions. But the VAs should also get a bigger cut, because I consider that talent to be more important than $4K for a highly anticipated AAA title.

 

I can't really speak to Bayo specifically because I haven't played it enough. But it seems to be pretty character driven but with high action gameplay from what little I've seen of it.  I do agree that games that are less narrative driven and have a less emphasis on VA in general shouldn't have to pay their VAs as much as something like Last of Us.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Chadouken
Clarity

[RSG3]

Well in The Last of Us they are doing a lot more then just VA work. They are mo-capping so they acting. 

 

Not saying you're wrong because you're not just pointing out a difference in work load there. Like honestly calling of these people just VAs is insulting considering the workload guys like Troy Baker are doing on TLOU or Reubin Langdon doing all those gymnastics for Dante. These guys are actors on top of being VOs. 

 

Everyone needs better pay tho, no debate there at all. 

[Hecatom]

3 minutes ago, RSG3 said:

Luke Skywalker gets residuals, it's far far too late in America to talk about cans of worms. 

 

But I also said everyone involved should residuals. If Nintebdo sells a game 30 years old on their goofy store whoever made it should get a check in the mail. 

 

Everyone. 

 

He gets residuals because that is how they negotiated the contract and is standard practice on Hollywwod.

Other actors are not so lucky and don't get residuals from the same projects he is getting them from.

 

Then we have stuff like what happened with the Ghost Buster bluray boxset last year?

Where the reason why the 2016 movie is a code and not a physical copy is not because it was a last minute addition because Paul Fieg stirred the pot, but because that way, Sony didn't have to renegotiate his and the actresses contracts regarding the movie, since it very likely giving the movie as a code fell under an already stablished contract and Sony knew many people wouldn't even bother retrieving the code.

Hence why Paul Fieg went to social media to cause outrage.

[Hecatom]

8 minutes ago, Chadouken said:

I can't really speak to Bayo specifically because I haven't played it enough. But it seems to be pretty character driven but with high action gameplay from what little I've seen of it.

 

I am not sure if I would call it character driven, in the sense of story, but mostly character driven in how the character behaves when playing.

At the end of the day, you don't play Bayonetta for the cutscenes or the story, since is just stuff that is there to give an excuse for what is happening on screen when playing.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but I wouldn't be surprised that many people who play the games don't even bother with the story, or just go through it and never bother with it again after the 1st playthrough, since they are more interested on just replaying the stages over and over, or play the "Bloddy Palace"

 

 

Think of it as the story on fgs.

Is there to add some "value", but is not the focus